Loading .380 ACP with heavy cast boolits?

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Hey all, I tend to lurk, and scavenge loads from on here, but I haven't run into a question that I couldn't find already addressed somewhere in the forum before. Unfortunately either this question doesn't seem to have come up, or my google-fu skills have failed.

So, here is what I am trying to do, and I was wondering if anybody has tried it before. I have a .380 ACP REVOLVER in gun jail at the moment. Since I don't have to worry about bullets feeding or cycling the action, I would like to try out some heavy for cartridge loads in it. I am trying to see if I can replicate the old .38/200 or .38 S&W Super Police loads that used a .38 S&W case and a 200 grain bullet, moving at about 630-650 fps. I currently have some load data from Ken Water's book, and have been using the .38/200 loads in several solid-frame revolvers. I would like to be able to update my 1910s vintage Colt Police Positive that loves these loads with something that is, well, less than a century old, in my carry rotation.

So, has anybody tried using heavy loads in a .380 ACP before? If so, what were your results like? Does anybody have any leads on some safe reloading data?

Right now I am looking at the following bullet possibilities:

A 212 grain RNFPGC that looks like it was originally designed for use in a .35 Remington. This is what I have been using for some of the .38/200 loads for the past several years.

A 180 grain SWC/Truncated Cone, depending on what I have sitting around.

A 158 grain Keith style SWCHP.

A 155 grain flat-nosed I don't know what to call it with a gas check. It is a custom mold from Accurate molds. I believe it is #36-155WL, that I haven't had sent off to get turned into a HP yet.

A plain, old fashioned 148 grain HBWC, both forwards and backwards.

A 148 grain DEWC.

And probably a few other cast bullets from online sources.

So, thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas? Anybody want to jump in and say "Don't be an idiot!"? I am not looking to hotrod the rounds. And I don't actually need them going super fast. I am looking for something to make holes through things, regardless of what it is likely to hit going through. The .38/200 will do that. What can I do with this to replicate that?

-Mb

[HangFireW8]

What make and model revolver are we talking about here?

[gun toting monkeyboy]

A Taurus M380 revolver. It is based on their M85 frame with a shorter cylinder. It also uses star clips for case extraction. So, a new production, steel framed revolver.

[Outpost75]

I load Fiocchi 9x17R (.380 Rimmed, Short) brass for use in my Ruger India Model .380/200 revolver and an older Colt Police Positive in .38 Colt New Police. These are the loads I have tested:

Accurate 36-125T, 3.0 grains Bullseye, 854 fps, 7 Sd
----------------------2.7 grains Bullseye, 803 fps, 10 Sd
Accurate 36-155D, 2.7 grains Bullseye, 789 fps, 14 Sd
----------------------2.5 grains Bullseye, 720 fps, 6 Sd
Accurate 36-178D, 2.5 grains Bullseye, 706 fps, 12 Sd
----------------------2.3 grains Bullseye, 684 fps, 4 Sd
Accurate 36-193D, 2.5 grains Bullseye, 694 fps, 9 Sd
----------------------2.3 grains Bullseye, 633 fps, 13 Sd
-----------------------5.6 grains #2400, 710 fps, 21 Sd
Accurate 36-201D, 5.6 grains #2400, 800 fps, 20 Sd

Attachment 155226Attachment 155227Attachment 155228Attachment 155229Attachment 155230Attachment 155231Attachment 155232

My 1930 DOM Colt has a heat treated frame and cylinder, which your 1910 version will NOT have, so I would not exceed any of my starting loads in the old Colt. I don't know about the metallurgy of the Taurus revolver, but to be on the safe side, I would use only the starting loads in it also.

My heavier loads with the 155-grain and lighter do not cause hard extraction in my 1930-era Colt, and I have shot several hundred of them with no loosening of the gun. The heavy bullet loads I tested only for academic curiosity. I do not use them because they do not shoot to the fixed sights of my revolvers. They are offered here for information only.

[Bigslug]

HMMMMMM. . . Interesting. . .

How much room do you have in the cylinder? Seems like a good place to start pondering your bullet length.

A hollow base may have potential as it preserves some of your case capacity.

Lube groove location could be problematic. You'll want one as far back as possible. You're probably going to have to deal with the case web thickening toward the base and the related problems of that sizing your bullet down.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

The Colt is a late teens model, and yes, I keep my loads down in it. I believe that the charge is under 2.0 grains of Bullseye. But I can't recall exactly from memory. I'll be able to measure the length of the chambers when it gets out of gun jail. California, not much I can do about that. But it is shorter than on the .38 Special version of the revolver. That is part of the reason I picked this one up. It has the potential to be a compact revolver like the old 9mm Federal was supposed to be back in the 1990s.

-Mb

[rintinglen]

If your 2 inch taurus has fixed sights, those heavy boolits will hit high. The worst case I've personally encountered was with my 32 Beretta Tomcat. The 98 grain boolits hit nearly 18 inches from point of aim.

PS, there is no advantage to be gained by going to super heavy boolits, the Brits be damned, a 200 grain boolit loafing along at <600 fps is not your best choice.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

It doesn't have all that much to do with being practical. When I CCW, I use store-bought, modern JHPs from a major manufacturer. Usually one that has had lots of testing. On the other hand, if I am mostly playing around, recreating a big, slow chunk of lead can be a lot of fun. And the recoil is usually negligible. Am I ever likely to use the old Colt for self defense? No. Not really. But it would be nice to know that I could. And the same goes for this. Yes, it will likely hit high, but at the ranges it is meant to be used at, who cares? And a low-recoil round that can, in a pinch, be used to punch holes through almost anything is kind of nice. Also, don't discount it because it is slow. If you look at some of the testing from Box'o'truth and some other sources online, it makes nice, very straight holes through all kinds of media. Sometimes that is fun in and of itself.

-Mb

[StrawHat]

...it makes nice, very straight holes through all kinds of media. Sometimes that is fun in and of itself.

-Mb...

Sometimes, this is the reason many of us shoot, just to have fun.

Kevin

[rintinglen]

If it's not for CCW, I suppose where it hits is irrelevant, if one is only interested in experimenting. I thought that you were looking for loads for your "carry rotation."

[Maximumbob54]

I was not aware the M380 is based on the M85's frame. To look at one side by side the frame looks much smaller. Otherwise it's a wash in why bother with .380's in the same size frame???

[gun toting monkeyboy]

It is based on the frame, but not the same.