Grizzly tough bullet -.45-70?

[725]

Back to the OP, I'd highly recommend the 460-420. Cast on the hard side and pushed fairly fast. Along with so many others, it's awesome.

[Rufus Krile]

The 405 won't reliably pass through a bison side to side. Neither will a 450. I have witnessed this first hand several times. The 480 goes all the way through as long as the impact velocity is kept at 1300 fps or less. The 500 grain round nosed Govt. bullet is what you want for penetration, but it makes a loaded round that is too long to cycle through the 1895 Marlin.

Last March I watched a friend hammer a bison with 3 405gr bullets @+/- 1400fps from about 20yds. Two exited, one broke a rib going in, trashed both lungs, broke a rib coming out and hung up just inside the skin on the far side. It weighed 267gr when done. Use the bigger bullet like Sharpsguy said. If someone has a 460-500gr that'll cycle in the Marlin, go for it. The COWW alloy starts about 11-12bhn but you can 'quench' them (oven bake for 45min @ 430F dropped into water) and get them into the high 20's. You're going to want them a couple of thousandths oversized to avoid leading, tho'.

[Avenger442]

Last March I watched a friend hammer a bison with 3 405gr bullets @+/- 1400fps from about 20yds. Two exited, one broke a rib going in, trashed both lungs, broke a rib coming out and hung up just inside the skin on the far side. It weighed 267gr when done. Use the bigger bullet like Sharpsguy said. If someone has a 460-500gr that'll cycle in the Marlin, go for it. The COWW alloy starts about 11-12bhn but you can 'quench' them (oven bake for 45min @ 430F dropped into water) and get them into the high 20's. You're going to want them a couple of thousandths oversized to avoid leading, tho'.

We have some black bear in our area but no griz. I know the 11-12 BHN is not too hard for hunting white tail dear. But if I want to take just one gun with me, say the 45-70, is the 17-20 BHN bullet too hard for white tail? Understanding that if I hit him with a 45-70 there is a big hole just with the bullet and no mushroom.

Probably couldn't use a BHN soft enough to mushroom in the .308 on white tail and still penetrate bear. Most of the time I'm hunting with a .308 bolt gun. Loads worked up for it in 12-14 BHN are well over 2000 fps and will group consistent 2" at 100 yards. If I bump it up to 17 BHN it will do consistent 1-1 1/2". You guys have got me thinking about hunting deer with the 45-70 just in case. Bought the Marlin CB lever with the 26" barrel about a month ago and haven't had time and money to cast and load test. So it sits until I do.

[RugerFan]

Really want bear protection any of these boolits in 45/70 will work famously
however the ultimate bear or 747 defense is a H&R ush with this boolit
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=73-770S-D.png,
made by Tom of course
you my want to modify the ush (legally of course) they tend to be a bit weighty
they drop a bit at 100 yds.but print nice little? groups at 50 yds.

A single-shot would not be the action I would choose for bear defense.

Perhaps bison hide is not nearly as tough as moose.

FWIW bison hide is quite a bit thicker than moose.

[MT Chambers]

Check out LBT molds, I believe that most of those designs used by Garrett, are LBT designs.

[Bigslug]

I jokingly refer to the NOE 460-405 as the "Harbinger of the Milk Jug Apocalypse". It will feed in Marlins and the .34" meplat creates a bunch of displacement - truly spectacular on gallon jugs when driven above 1600 fps, and good to create a serious bleed-out on critters.

If you're driving it hard, a gas check will solve a lot of problems - namely retaining accuracy and controlling fouling, especially if a softer alloy is chosen for expansion in the hollowpoint version.

[Markbo]

Oooooor.... you could coat it and shoot it as hot as you like.

[sharpsguy]

OAL of the loaded 457121PH in a 45-70 is 2.540. Cycles through my 1895 Marlin and my friends' 1886 Winchester flawlessly. If I could have only one bullet for a 45-70, this would be it.

[sac]

OAL of the loaded 457121PH in a 45-70 is 2.540. Cycles through my 1895 Marlin and my friends' 1886 Winchester flawlessly. If I could have only one bullet for a 45-70, this would be it.

thank you sir, I've got a 535 postel for my 45-90 and have been trying to figure out how to make it work. I will be getting this mold you listed.

[Avenger442]

Does anyone know what BHN is too hard to expand on game animal, mostly white tail deer, at 2300-2500 fps? Sometimes I have trouble finding information because there are so many places it could be. I've been reading the Hunting section and most of the guys here are pushing bullets under 2000 fps with 50/50 WW/pure lead. Knowing that doesn't help me much for my application. If I have to do a 200 or 300 yard shot 1600-1800 fps out of the barrel will have a lot more drop to it.

Help Please!

[MT Chambers]

You have to check for feeding problems if your meplat is very wide as the edge gets caught up when feeding.

[Lonegun1894]

Does anyone know what BHN is too hard to expand on game animal, mostly white tail deer, at 2300-2500 fps? Sometimes I have trouble finding information because there are so many places it could be. I've been reading the Hunting section and most of the guys here are pushing bullets under 2000 fps with 50/50 WW/pure lead. Knowing that doesn't help me much for my application. If I have to do a 200 or 300 yard shot 1600-1800 fps out of the barrel will have a lot more drop to it.

Help Please!

Are you saying you're getting 2500 fps out of your .45-70? That's over anything my manuals show in the .45-70 sections, and only achievable in the .458 Win Mag with top end loads using light bullets. I can't help with the BHN part of your question, but you have my attention. I know my deer and hog load in .45-70 is the Lyman 457122HP at 335grs in my alloy, but I only push it to 1450 fps, and it kills them VERY dead. I don't even want to know what this bullet would do to an animal at 2300-2500fps, but I'm thinking lots of wasted meat.

[Avenger442]

Are you saying you're getting 2500 fps out of your .45-70? That's over anything my manuals show in the .45-70 sections, and only achievable in the .458 Win Mag with top end loads using light bullets. I can't help with the BHN part of your question, but you have my attention. I know my deer and hog load in .45-70 is the Lyman 457122HP at 335grs in my alloy, but I only push it to 1450 fps, and it kills them VERY dead. I don't even want to know what this bullet would do to an animal at 2300-2500fps, but I'm thinking lots of wasted meat.

I have a 45-70 that I'm still putting together the equip to cast and load with. Would have to shoot store bought in it if I hunt with it. But the 2200-2500 is with the .308 I'll be hunting with this season. I've been getting 1-1 1/2 inch groups with the load I'm shooting now. There is a possibility of a 200 yard shot where I hunt part of the season. So the speed might be needed. The bullet is 17 BHN and I was wondering if it was too hard to mushroom at 2500 fps. I know the accuracy drops off at 13 - 14 BHN.

[woodbutcher]

Many years ago(about 1966)my Father and a friend of his that moved to Florida from Idaho after he retired to get away from the hard winters.He was talking about hunting and outdoor sports,and the subject turned to the Grizzly,and what it took to stop a PO`ed charging grizzly.My Fathers friend said that the only certain way to positively stop one in his tracks was a 75mm recoiless rifle or a supersonic telephone pole.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[rodwha]

A harder BHN is necessary for leading in a ~1400 fps projectile??? That's not my understanding.

I have a mold for the 320 grn Lee REAL for my .50 cal that's going faster than that with 70 grns of 3F Olde E/T7. I've not shot enough of it though to say anything about leading (I use pure lead). Now I also use a felt wad as without it they keyhole at 50 yds.