I want to get a mould and cast a good bullet for hunting in Grizzly country. I am looking for something between 400-500 grains that I can load for my .45-70 Marlin 1895 SBL. I want something with a wide meplat that can be driven fast enough to crush said Grizzlies. As I'm new to casting and the .45-70, what do you recommend for a mould, and do I still need to size and gas check etc. Any help is greatly appreciated
Mike
Are you hunting grizzly in grizzly country or hunting other game and wanting this for protection?
Hunting moose and deer etc. Scared of dem big ol grizzlies. I want a bullet to stop a charge
The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
-- Thomas Jefferson
In the Marlin I would stick to a 375-405gr bullet.
My personal pick? not entirely sure as I've never given it much thought as the nearest likely Grizzly is some 1500 miles away...
Not many Grizzlies outside of those in major Zoos in Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington...
Get a Lyman 457121PH. It is a 480 grain flat nosed bullet with seven grease grooves, and is magic in a 45-70. Cast it from AC WW and load it with 38 grains of 3031 for 1300 fps and you will shoot through any grizzly that walks from any angle. It cycles through my Marlin 1895 like butter. I have a friend in Alaska that runs this in his 1886 Winchester and loves it. I have not used it on bear, but I have gotten complete pass through on three different bison and several African animals with it. This is the Real Deal, not a guess.
Check out what Tom at Accurate has to offer. This is a plain base 405gr and he offers them up to 500+gr all with or without gas checks.
This design is made to feed 100% through the Marlin.
You can have him make your mold to drop at whatever diameter you want with what alloy you want. It's a win win.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7
My guess....Just a guess mind you....That 405 will pass through elk, bison and grizzly just like sharpsguy's 480 @ 1300fps or even a bit less.
This is why I got the 405!Originally Posted by Markbo
No gas check needed for me. All my loads are kept under 1600fps.
Should pass clean through most anything.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7
The 405 won't reliably pass through a bison side to side. Neither will a 450. I have witnessed this first hand several times. The 480 goes all the way through as long as the impact velocity is kept at 1300 fps or less. The 500 grain round nosed Govt. bullet is what you want for penetration, but it makes a loaded round that is too long to cycle through the 1895 Marlin.
I use this one from Accurate:
....and this is why. This picture was taken by a friend about a half mile from where I was hunting Fri, and Sat this week. It's feeding on gut piles left by other deer and elk hunters. 99% of the time they leave you alone if you leave them alone, it's the 1% that can really hurt a fella:
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine ownself be true
You guys are truly fantastic. I have had a busy day but managed to look into some things mentioned. I have been giving some bullets made by accurate molds a good long look. I have the option with them to add multiple designs in the same mould block.
I am thinking of ordering an aluminum block with a 46-350VG/46-405VG/46-525VG
These bullets have a ridiculously wide meplat and I believe if not mistaken were designed specifically for a Marlin 1895. They are designed to duplicate a beartooth piledriver.
My only qualm now is sifting through alloy information to figure out what would give me the hardest toughest bullet possible. Tom at accurate moulds requires me to predetermined an alloy to be used before production. I am not opposed to finding whatever I need to do that. My brain hurts a little trying to take everything in.
Any info as always is incredibly appreciated. I am always so humbled to see how willing perfect strangers are to help out
Cheers
Mike
Pretty sure a magazine detonation from a round nosed bullet in a tube magazine would be even worse. I appreciate the advise but a roundnosed boolit is no good In a marlin 1895
I said in my post that it was too long to work in a Marlin 1895.l I was just offering some extra real world information and you failed to pick up on it. Second point. I don't believe that the large round nose on the Govt. bullet will cause a chain fire in a tubular magazine. Remington and Winchester have offered ammunition for lever guns for over a hundred years that have more pointed nose shapes than the big round nosed Govt. bullet and this factory ammo does not detonate in the magazine tube. I actually doubt that you will see a grizzly, but good luck anyway with your learning curve.
generally no need to know the exact alloy
I believe that Tom uses that intel for the diameter you requested
If I size the boolits I always order larger than my specific dia.anyway
to ensure that what ever alloy I use will work
I use a 420 gr beaut in my Ruger #1 kills famously
if you are looking for a hard alloy check out rotometal site the have
a product called super hard but hard is not the only variable needed to shoot a good cast boolit
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=46-420C-D.png,
Hit em'hard
hit em'often
Water dropped clip on wheel weights will go completely through a large black bear end to end(in the chest and out the rear ham) from a 454 Casull. I did that at 40 yards with a 2.5" 454 Casull when I was grouse hunting and that was all I had big enough to kill the bear because I was hunting with a .22 and luckily was wearing the 454 for bear protection. I often deer and elk hunt with 45-70 because there are a LOT of bears where I hunt, both grizzly and black so when hunting those areas the GF and I carry guns capable of doing double duty. No idea how they will perform on buffalo and I honestly don't care because I'll probably never get to shoot one but if you are wanting a proven (on bear) alloy that will penetrate without expansion and break bone without coming apart then water dropped COWW will do what you want. COWW was the alloy I specified when I had Tom make my 45-70 mold.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine ownself be true
No bears or 45/70 but add some Cu to the WW. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...further/page15. Last post. Adds toughness and hardness (depends on how much you add) to the alloy. Plus you can probably go with a plain base.
Whatever!
I don't have bears to concern myself with but Cornbread's choice happens to be the same one I made when ordering from Tom at Accurate Molds. Cycles perfectly in my 1895. I wanted the gas check because if I want to heat things up loading these I can do so. I have another plain base mold for lessor velocities, should I want, or I can use this mold for double duty. Nothing says a gas check shouldn't be used at 1,300 fps.
My $.02 on velocity: I've shot scores of deer with 355 grain 50 caliber conical boolits out of my muzzleloaders over the years from less than 20 yards up to 175 yards, one hole in and one hole out. Complete pass throughs with the boolit leaving the muzzle in the neighborhood of 1,200fps with soft lead. Yet, unless the spine was hit those deer always ran. They died but they ran. I've seen grizzlies in the wild and I don't have faith that a .45 caliber boolit traveling only 1,300 fps will stop said charging bear fast enough to keep you from getting chewed on. Will it kill it? Absolutely. Will it drop it in it's tracks in a full out charge? I wouldn't want to bet my life and limbs on that. It is one thing to kill a big game animal when they aren't aware their life is in danger but another thing to stop something angry and vicious. If it were me I would want a slug that will hit fast, and hard with quite a shocking effect in the event a grizzly comes running. This means I would use said boolit at the higher end of the velocity scale.
I use this one from Accurate:
....and this is why. This picture was taken by a friend about a half mile from where I was hunting Fri, and Sat this week. It's feeding on gut piles left by other deer and elk hunters. 99% of the time they leave you alone if you leave them alone, it's the 1% that can really hurt a fella:
Really want bear protection any of these boolits in 45/70 will work famously
however the ultimate bear or 747 defense is a H&R ush with this boolit
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=73-770S-D.png,
made by Tom of course
you my want to modify the ush (legally of course) they tend to be a bit weighty
they drop a bit at 100 yds.but print nice little? groups at 50 yds.
Hit em'hard
hit em'often
The only way to stop a charging grizz is to bust his wheels. You can do a double lung shot on anything that walks on this earth and kill it; but it can take more time than you are willing to risk. The heavy, wide meplat bullets will penetrate when and where you want. Just remember that millions of buffalo were killed with 1200 fps lead slugs. A COWW bullet with a wide meplat will pentrate like a freight train, and contrary to popular belief, the faster you drive it, the less it will penetrate. Any 400-500 grain slug going 1300-1600 fps will do and end to end on anything you will want to kill in N America. Have a read of Garretts penetration tests.....heres the link http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html you will be amazed at the results. I have one of the hammerhead rounds in a mold from Tom at Accurate with a huge Meplat weighing in at 420 grains without lube or gas check.. If I recall correctly they come in at 430 all done up. I have the utmost confidence in this round on anything I can tangle with in the Selkirk mountains where I live....and we have some very impressive bears here.
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