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Thread: Re-Barreling/Re-Chambering my K31 Swiss

  1. #81
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    376 is 62K - your GP11 is 55K and the 6.5x55 is 51K
    so it might be a little robust with factory ammo
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  2. #82
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artful View Post
    376 is 62K - your GP11 is 55K and the 6.5x55 is 51K
    so it might be a little robust with factory ammo
    .

    Are these PSI or CUP numbers? Not that I really know the difference but, some of my loading manuals list one or the other and this is how I figure out what may or may not be a safe choice.

    Since the K31 action has been used to chamber 30/06's, 300 win-mags and 300 H&H, I'm fairly certain that the 376 Steyr should work safe enough. I'd still do a little more researching just to be sure though.

    HollowPoint

  3. #83
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Listed as PSI

    300 win mag is 64K PSI / 54k CUP
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  4. #84
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artful View Post
    Listed as PSI

    300 win mag is 64K PSI / 54k CUP
    Thanks for clearing that up Arful. I still struggle with the PSI/CUP thing but if I know what the pressures are with each type of measurement at least I can make some comparative sense of it all.

    Well: on the K31 project front, I was able to thread everything that needed to be threaded; the barrel, the Barrel-Nut and the Threaded-Barrel-Stub are all done and fitted as finely as I could get them.

    I did run into another annoying but fixable problem with the threading on my Threaded-Barrel-Stub. When I went to try to test-fit it onto my newly threaded barrel I found that my threading tool must have had some flex to it when it reached the deepest part of the inside thread on that Threaded-Stub. It went on nice and slop-free for the first 3/4" or so then it got progressively harder the deeper I screwed it on.

    I ended up having to "Chase" those inside thread from the opposite end of the Threaded-Barrel-Stub in order to bring them a little closer to the dimensions of that first three-quarters-of-an-inch that initially went on smoothly. Chasing outside threads is tricky enough as it is but, Chasing inside threads that you're trying to cut as "Class-3B" threads is even harder; especially when you lack the experience like I do.

    I think that for an experienced machinist it would have been childs-play. More than likely, they wouldn't have made that mistake in the first place. Out of paranoia, I went about it trying to err on the side of caution. I left the those inside threads kind of tight to where I needed to use the leverage of my home made Barrel-Nut-Wrench to screw my Threaded-Barrel-Stub onto the newly threaded barrel. I still couldn't screw it on by hand but that's what I was shooting for.

    Why? My thinking was that with tight fitting threads that weren't so tight that they wouldn't go on if I used my Barrel-Nut-Wrench, I could screw it on in the same manner that I would use if I were cleaning up poor or damaged threads with a threading tap. I screwed my Threaded-Barrel-Stub in and then backed it out; screwed it in and then backed it out, etc..

    In the end I got some slope free snuggly meshing threads that I can screw in with hand pressure only. It took a heck of along time to do though.

    On a positive note; the inside threads on my Barrel-Nut didn't have that problem. This is because I took the time to make a minimum of three identical passes at the same depth with each increase in thread depth. This mitigated the effects of tool flex. Unfortunately for me, I had learned the hard way.

    I'll be taking some more pics tomorrow. I hope to be able to post them in the evening. I hope to be able to order my Chamber Reamer tomorrow as well. I'll be back with updates later.

    HollowPoint

  5. #85
    Boolit Master
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    I'm Nearly Done With The Machining Phase Of This Project

    One of the things that concerned me about having to turn down the chamber end of my barrel blank was the amount of wall-thickness I'd have to support my cartridge. As it turns out, that concern was unfounded.

    Once I screwed everything together by hand, I found that the tenon area now actually had a little more supporting mass than the factory tenon did/does. This is partly due to the larger diameter I made my Barrel-Nut and my Threaded-Barrel-Stub. In addition, you'll note from the pics that the factory tenon only has about a two inch length of threaded chamber area before it reduces down to a thinner diameter.

    The parts in these two latest photos are still kind of dirty. I really should clean them off better before I photograph them but, the pics were quickly done due to last minute work scheduling. Hopefully they'll give you a good idea what my previous post was attempting to describe.

    I'm off to the bank to deposit my Chamber Reamer money, then it's over to the hardware store to pick up some roof sealer. It's been raining cats and dogs here and I found out last night that a small section of my roof isn't as water tight as I thought. I can't have water dripping on my machines.

    HollowPoint

  6. #86
    Boolit Master
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    Cannot wait until you get to range test this baby. Keep it up, looking good. Bet you're gonna get a few stares loading 6.5x55 Swedish into a formerly chambered 7.5x54 Swiss K31. Frank

  7. #87
    Boolit Master
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    Hi Frank;

    The funny thing is, any time I've taken my K31 to the range previously, it turned out that I was the only one there with a K31. Lots of guys have come by to ask what type of rifle it was. Several of those who came by to look at it stated that they owned a K31 but now that I think about it, I've never seen another K31 on the range anytime I've been there with mine.

    Without fail, those who said they owned one also said that they loved their K31 but, they rarely ever shoot them. As far as military surplus guns go, I think I've seen more Mosin Nagant's on the firing line than any other milsurp. I know that one of the range masters is an avid K31 shooter. I suspect that if anyone notices the difference in cartridges, he'll be the guy; or, maybe not. At first glance, both the 6.5 and the 7.5 don't look all that different. I guess I'll find out when the time comes.

    No matter; I too will be happy to finally get my K31 up and running. I ordered the chamber reamer on Wednesday. I have a light day of work today and it has finally quit raining for a while here. Hopefully I can finish up the outside turning of my barrel and set it up for cutting the chamber. I will also be setting up my Barrel-Nut on the mill in order to flute the outside diameter of it.

    I have just a few more little things to do until I can finally see if it was all worth while. I was thinking the other night, "Man it would really suck if after all this work it blew into a million pieces when I took it out and proof tested it for the first time."

    We shall see.

    HollowPoint

  8. #88
    Boolit Master
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    Think I might be the only one in my club that shoots the K31. Like you I've never seen another when at the local range. I have seen some match rifles built on the K31 action some years ago. Gunshop up in Pennsylvania had about 5 or so mostly in 30-06, 306 and 7.5x54 Swiss. Beautiful pieces of steel and wood. Only match rifle I have is a post '64 model 70 in 30-06 with the marksman stock. Funny thing about the '06 cartridge is that I find it easier to develop an accurate load either for hunting or match shooting. 55.5grs IMR 4350, rem or Federal case,CCI large rifle magnum primer and a 168 grain Sierra MK. I've shot that load in 3 '06 chambered match rifles all pre '64's, one 1949 Win model 70 standard in 30-06 and my latest '06 a Sako Hunter in '06. The Sako has a love affair with my dwindling supply of lake city 1967 match that I have. And suprisingly both the 168gr Sierra MK and the old 172 grain bullet as loaded in the match ammo group almost the same when fired out of the same rifle. There was a name used to describe what you are doing when you thread the barrel and fit it to a new breech section but cannot remember. It is a fairly known process and I've heard it being done on mannlicher schenaur rifles that had the 6.5 MN cartridge bolt head and they used a section of 7.62x39 bbl as both calibers share the same size cartridge head diameter. Don't think you'll have problems as long as you use the same pressure guidelines for the parent 7.5 Swiss. Frank

  9. #89
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    I saw a lot more K31's on the line several years ago when the swiss would still allow GP11 to be exported - now with them limiting what surplus ammo leaves it's become less of a shooter more of a collector.
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  10. #90
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artful View Post
    I saw a lot more K31's on the line several years ago when the swiss would still allow GP11 to be exported - now with them limiting what surplus ammo leaves it's become less of a shooter more of a collector.
    I've never owned or bought a gun with the thought that it would be just a collector. I buy them to shoot them. If they sit idle for a while it's because I'm shooting one of my others and it will just have to wait its turn.

    I only own three rifles and whenever I get the chance to get out and do some shooting it's hard to pick which one to take with me. It's like choosing just one of your kids to take out for a day of shooting while the others stand crying at the front window as they watch you drive off.

    Once I get this rifle project done I'll then be the proud owner of a Tikka 223, an Enfield 30-303 and now this K31 in 6.5x55. The latter two are multi-tasker calibers. My 223 is more or less a plinking and predator/varmint hunting rifle. My problems is that once I develop a tack-driving load for any gun I own I rarely shoot any other load out of it. That's my reason for having three different rifles; one for coyote, one for mid-sized game and one for larger game. This makes it so I don't have to fiddle around with re-setting zeros on my sights.

    I think I'm the only one who's like this. Once I dial a rifle in, I don't like messing with a good thing.

    HollowPoint

  11. #91
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Well, see you got an advantage of those who bought and now don't shoot - you reload!
    Rolling your own makes a world of difference.

    I got a 375 Weatherby magnum rifle and when I got it you could buy ammo
    - then they quit making it
    - now they are making it again.
    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/69221
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/965...tzer-box-of-20

    If I didn't reload there would have been a long dry spell of shooting it.
    You have to look at it from the point of view of the average surplus rifle buyer.
    Most don't reload but buy the guns because the are reasonably priced and have
    reasonably priced ammo to shoot up.

    I remember when you could take a Benjie ($100) and pick up a mosin rifle and ammo and shoot for an afternoon. Heck I remember 308 at a nickle a shot.
    Now you don't see 6.5x55 or GP11 for sale cheap but to you it doesn't matter.
    You just Roll your Own.

    You have a pretty good selection of stuff you can use from your 22, 264, and 308 rifles.

    And I understand about one load one gun - makes life easier - I have a few rifles that are that way for me

    - I also don't adjust the scope for range on those either, on those I have mounted the scopes with Duplex sights

    http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...plex-reticles/

    I hold the bottom of the top thick post for close range,
    the cross hairs for that which falls within the "Point Blank" Range

    and then the top of the bottom thick post for my "Long Range" Shot.
    And won't shoot beyond the Long Range distance.
    Last edited by Artful; 01-09-2016 at 04:06 PM.
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  12. #92
    Boolit Master
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    My New Chamber Reamer Arrived Early

    My Chamber Reamer showed up earlier than I expected so I spent the morning cutting my chamber. It worked out great. I won't spend alot of time explaining the obvious here.

    I did have to borrow a loaded round of 6.5x55 from a friend just so I had something to use for confirmation on the depth of my new chamber. I think I got it right, even though the case heads from the various brass manufacturers tend to be ever-so-slightly different. This latest group of pics has some explanatory text superimposed onto it; just like the others.

    The way things are looking right now I think that all I have left to do is flute the Barrel-Nut, Mark and Cut the extraction notch on my new barrel, Powder-Coat the last two components and then reassemble for proof testing. The Reamer arrived so quickly that I didn't have time to play around with the Ejector like I said I wanted to do. I'll get to that later. I'm anxious to see if this thing is going to shoot without coming apart at the seams.

    With any luck, the next group of pictures I upload will include my fully assembled K31 chambered in 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser.

    Tell me what you think cause I can't read your minds. Is there something I've missed? I've been racking my brain trying to think of anything I may have missed just so I don't find out the hard way later.

    HollowPoint
    Last edited by HollowPoint; 01-09-2016 at 07:52 PM.

  13. #93
    Boolit Master
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    Just looking at your latest pics. On the 7.5mm barrel, that is some of the most intricate machining I've ever seen on a rifle barrel. Kinda makes you appreciate the mauser actions for their simplicty in fitting barrels. Looks like you used a Swedish M41 round with that tombac type bullet. Shot a bunch of those in more than a few of my Swedish mausers. Looks like you are well on your way to the home stretch regarding this build. Can't wait to see the test results. Now all you need is one of the Rocksolid scope mounts installed, but you did express a fondness for iron sights. Frank

  14. #94
    Boolit Master
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    Back when I first started looking into the possibility of re-barreling my K31, one of the most commonly expressed observations about the K31's tenon configuration was along the lines of "Intricacy." The first time I was actually able to pull up a picture on the internet of the factory tenon of a K31, I just didn't see it that way.

    In my mind the only thing that might qualify as "Intricate" is the angled-cam on the face of the breech. If you remove that from the equation all you're left with is a threaded cylindrical length of pipe with a couple of different outside diameters. Once you figure out a way to go about cutting the angled-cam to match the factory configuration, then the rest is just basic lathe work; at least that's how it seemed to me. Others may disagree, and they very well may be right but now that I've had a chance to work on it myself I can tell you, it's really not that complex. I think that the manner in which my written words have tried to describe it may have made it seem more complicated than it really is.

    Another thing I looked into back when I was searching for info on re-barreling was, the possibility of mounting a scope on my K31. I found out about the off-center scope mount and further research lead me to the RockSolid scope mount. It looked interesting and exceptionally well made but it cost more than I paid for my rifle so I went about making my own. The RockSolid mount has an integral angled deflector that the empty brass ricochets off of when the bolt is pulled back. It requires a deliberate and brisk bolt pull back to build enough inertia for the brass to bounce off of and out the side of the receiver. Except for the angled-deflector, my home made scope mount works basically the same way; and it didn't cost nearly as much.

    That's not to say mine is better. It was just cheaper for me. The RockSolid scope mount is made of steel. Mine is made of some scrap aluminum stock I had in my junk box.

    If budget constraints had not played a part in this K31 re-barreling project, I would have bought the stainless steel barrel with the larger outside diameter and skipped the Threaded-Barrel-Stub part that led me to Plan-B. All I would have had to do then was thread and chamber my barrel blank and then make a Barrel-Nut to hold it in place. The cutting and shaping of the angled-cam would have been done in basically the same way that I did it this time around.

    I wanted to ask about that loaded cartridge I used. The guy that I borrowed it from bought some in bulk. I don't really know what make or manufacture it is. You mention "Swedish M41." Can you tell me if they're boxer or berdan primed? The friend that I borrowed that from doesn't even own a 6.5x55 rifle. He told me he got a great deal on them that he just couldn't pass up so he bought them. He also said he could sell me some for cheap but if I'm going to spend more money to buy loaded ammo I want to get some I can reload. I'm not set up to reload berdan primed brass. I know it's possible to do but, if at all possible I'd rather get some brass I can hit the ground running with.

    HollowPoint
    Last edited by HollowPoint; 01-10-2016 at 01:31 PM.

  15. #95
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    M41 Prickskytte round was a Norma made bullet of approximately 143 grains.

    The standard M-41 ammo has a 2592 m/v in a 29" barrel.
    Most every European military round I have fired was put up in a Berdan primed case.
    It was said the rounds were made for M41B "sniper" rifle use.

    The best bullet to match that weight today would be Sierra's 142 grain "cruise missle" Matchking.

    I've seen the SMK used with 46.3 grains of RL22 with excellent results.

    http://dutchman.rebooty.com/ammo.html
    Last edited by Artful; 01-10-2016 at 05:43 PM.
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  16. #96
    Boolit Master
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    Berdan primed; that's what I suspected but I wanted to be sure. I'll probably just by a box of commercially loaded ammo for proof testing. I hope I can find some on the shelves at one of our local retail stores.

    I know I can get loaded ammo online, and it looks cheap enough but only till they add in the shipping fees. Then it becomes cheaper to drive around or call around to the local stores to see if they have any in stock.

    I traded some of my 7.5x55 brass to one of our other members on this forum for some 6.5x55 brass just so I could start the process of working up loads. I may be getting a little ahead of myself. I really should have waited till I actually had a gun to shoot them out of but, I don't have the luxury of alot of pre-planned free time with which to do my load workup.

    Speaking of Load-Workup, I also ordered a set of cheap loading dies. With any luck both the brass and the dies will arrive about the same time.

    I'm hoping to do the last of the machining work on this K31 project next week some time. If I can find some 6.5x55 ammo locally I can use one of the upcoming weekends for proof testing my finished project. If I'm not mistaken, the surplus ammo is loaded to the pressures that the older surplus rifles were working under. Some of the new commercial ammo is said to be loaded for the more modern firearms that were built with better metallurgy.

    I don't know this for a fact. It's just something I came across while in search of ballistics information. I believe the K31 action is more than robust enough to be able to handle the more stoutly loaded commercial ammo; if there is such a thing; and if such ammo does exist, that would be the thing to use for proof testing.

    I also took the time today to Cold-Blue my new barrel. It actually looks pretty good; almost like I knew what I was doing. I intend to give it about four layers of flat-black spray paint for the time being. After I've proven to myself that it's going to function safely and reliably over the long run, I may take it back apart and Powder-Coat it too.

    There something I was wondering about Powder-Coating a rifle barrel. Will or can the barrel get hot enough to melt that Powder-Coating with repeated firing of the rifle; especially since the barrel is sandwiched in an oven of two pieces of insulating wood-stocks?

    HollowPoint

  17. #97
    Boolit Master
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    All of the Swedish M41 ammo with the tombac bullet that I had was all berdan primed, same goes for a lot of the Lapua ammo that I had. Federal years ago imported Norma 6.5x55 under the American Eagle brand. That is boxer primed and does shoot very well in my Swedish mausers. Hansen Cartridge also did import 7mm, 6.5x55,303 British,7.62x39 and 7.62x54r years ago. If it has the green primer sealant it is boxer primed, red sealant and is berdan primed and possibly corrosive. I have a bunch of yugo NNY heavy ball 7.62x54r and my Russian M44 carbine loves it. Almost forgot the Hansen Cartridge company headstamp was either PPU or NNY. They also did import the 7.62x39 which was made in Israel with the IMI headstamp. You almost never see any of this at gun shows. Long gone. I only mention this just in case you run into some. Frank

  18. #98
    Boolit Master
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    "If it has the green primer sealant it is boxer primed, red sealant and is berdan primed and possibly corrosive."

    I've seen ammo with different colored sealants but I didn't know that they were meant to designate Berdan or Boxer primed cartridges. If this is the case, that means that the loaded cartridge that I used is Boxer primed. I had to do a double-take to confirm the color but it does have Green colored sealant around the primer. Are you sure about the colors?

    If so, that means that I might have a source for cheap loaded Boxer primed ammo that I might be able to buy locally. And it would be re-loadable. The guy that I borrowed this cartridge from said he had made a bulk buy of the stuff and he might be willing to sell me some. I need to make sure it's the right stuff first.

    HollowPoint

  19. #99
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    skeettx's Avatar
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    To make SURE pull a bullet, dump the powder, look inside, then decap the case, and reprime with standard size primer.
    YUP, INSURE!!

    Mike
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  20. #100
    Boolit Master
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    The Swedish M41 6.5x55 cartridges as far as I know are all berdan primed. The new Serbian (formerly Yugoslavia) headstamped either NNY or PPU are boxer primed. Grafs sells the PPU brass and it's good stuff for reloading. Easy way to tell if the cartridge you have is berdan is pull the bullet,dump the powder and if boxer you should see one hole in the base of the case, if either one or two little holes then it's berdan. Frank

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check