Converting a Ruger .22WMR 'Single Six' to .25ACP/6.35x28.6mmSR Cartridges.

[Chev. William]

I do not know the hours but the shop charged me $200.00 for the Work to Make the New barrel, fit it to the frame and set it up for the screw attached parts, revise the firing pin location form RF to CF, have the barrel Blued by an outside shop and rework one Cylinder form .22WMR to .25ACP and time the Results for 8 shot cylinders.

I do not have the cylinder nor the Revolver in front of me at the moment but i believe the cylinder was first reamed through to .250" or .251" Diameter then chambered using a replaceable pilot reamer. The Forcing Cone on the Back fo the barrel is probably larger than that to insure bullets actually enter the barrel even with wear to the Lock up parts, possibly .005" to .010" over size at the 'Cylinder' end adn tapering to bore diameter of the .25ACP barrel (~.243") the groove diameter is ~.250" and factory Ammo is loaded with ~.251" FMJ bullets.

I do not own nor use a Powder Measure other than Lee dippers and RCBS "505" balance scale to weigh each and every charge I load. Slow, Tedious but I am more Sure of my loads than others.
Especially the .07 grain to 1.3 grain charge range for .25ACP.

Thank you for the Offer but I would not use it; i am too set in my Ways to go to a 'automated' loading system.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Talked to my Gunsmith today and he has trouble shoot my Revolver and is moving to correct the Problem. He found that the Firing Pin Bushing is moving Back into the Frame with Firing. He tried another Ruger Bushing an it did the same; so he is going to make a new, longer, Bushing with a crowned face so it will "Two Block" up against the shoulder in the bushing hole in the Frame.

His comment: "the .25ACP has more recoil force than the .22WMR."

On a Separate Subject:
Here is Alliant's reply to my Queries:

"Subject: RE: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form Date: May 18, 2016 10:13 AM
William,
We are not aware of any of the issues you are bringing up with the BE-86.
The next time we do some testing of this powder, we will look into testing it for the 25 Auto.
Thanks,
Shoot Straight
DuaneVB
CCI/Speer/Alliant
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: chevwilliam@earthlink.net [mailto:chevwilliam@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:29 AM
To: Alliant Reloading
Subject: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form

William J. Stewart ETC USN Retired
chevwilliam@earthlink.net
8376 De Garmo Avenue
Sun Valley California 91352-3586 USA

Dear Sirs:
RE: BE-86 Use and Characteristics.

I am interested in this propellant for use in small charge weight applications in
the Range of 0.5 grains to 5.0 grains.

My Questions:
1. Does BE-86 exhibit any small charge combustion instability problems?

2. Does BE-86 exhibit any Ignition problems in small charge Weight use?

3. Does BE-86 exhibit any low charge volume to case powder chamber volume ratio
instability such as demonstrated by "H110" and "W296" propellants?

4. Is there Any Lower limit of Charge weight or Volume of charge for BE-86
indicated by your testing to date?

5. Is Alliant planning to test this powder for use in .25 ACP size range Cartridges?

My Intended use is in .25 ACP and a series of "Mildcat" longer cases based upon
reduced (to .276" outside) diameter .22 Hornet or 5.7x28mm parent cases in lengths
including 1.055", 1.125", and 1.250" among others.

Regards,
William J. Stewart ETC USN Retired
818-767-8082

Handgun -
Firearm Make/Model: Ruger "Single Six"
Cartridge: .25 ACP /6.35 Browning and similar "mildcat" designs
Bullet Brand and Style: Various FMJ-RN of .250"-.252" dia.
Bullet Weight (Grains): 50 Grain, 65 grain, and others
Primer: Various Small Pistol
Powder: Alliant Bullseye or BE-86, Bullseye, Unique and Similar."

It seems they WILL be Testing for the .25ACP in the future and may test for my concerns.
Now to await their Testing - - patiently.
Chev. William

[lightload]

S&W crimps their bushings in the frame.

[Chev. William]

S&W crimps their bushings in the frame.

Is this the same type of crimp as used on Military Primers?
Chev. William

[lightload]

No, sir. The crimping part of the tool is round and fits against the fire wall at that point where the bushing and frame are contiguous. The other part is a rod passing through and down the barrel and touches the crimping part. A big hammer does the rest. I saw this procedure done 35 years ago by a l.e. armorer on a M-65 whose bushing came loose.

[Chev. William]

Sounds like an annular 'Stake' to tighten the bush in the Hole. is that the appearance of the finished installation?
Chev. William

[Michael J. Spangler]

I just read a cool article in the new handloader magazine. Lipseys and Ruger are possibly working on a single 8 in a new cartridge. The cartridge might be based off of a lengthened 25 ACP around the length of a 25 Flea.
That would make for a nice package for all of us who have been watching this. They said if you have interest in this cartridge and gun please call Lipsey's and let them know.

[Chev. William]

Thanks for the "Heads Up" about the 'Handloader' Article. I have read the Article also and Sent Lipsey's an Email with information on my experiments and photos of my Long Barrel Ruger 8 shot in 25ACP.
They Said they Thanked me for the Input.

I do Hope they use at least a 1.055" case length, but would really Prefer they go to one of 1.125" ase length in the 1.410" to 1.420" Cylinders.
Using a 50 grain FMJ-RN as the Jacketed version and a 65 grain RFN Lead Gas Checked as the 'Hunting' load would give some really Snappy performance out of this Caliber.
I believe The Ruger 'Single Six' might have the Capacity for loads in the 40,000psi Pmap area; which would really push the performance up considerably. 40,000psi is the same as the .22 Hornet and the .30 Carbine rounds.
Even if limited to about the same Pmap as the .22WMR (24,000psi) it would still give respectable performance. my calculations indicate the 50 grain pill out of the 1.055" case with a 3.61 grain Charge of Bullseye would yield about 24,982psi Pmap; 1728fps and 331ft-lbs at the muzzle of my 10-5/8" barreled Revolver (about 12" muzzle to Breech face on the frame).

Of course the 65 grain pill would come off at lower, but still Respectable, Speed and Energy.

On a different Note: My gunsmith has returned my Ruger to me with the Bushing 'set back' cured verified by his test firing a full cylinder through it with NO issues.

Now to get to a range and do some Firing myself. I DO need to practice with this Long barreled 8 shooter as it is the First long barreled revolver I have fired and my 'hold' Does Need Work.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[leftiye]

Shortened .25 hornet? No messing with case head.

[Chev. William]

The .25 Hornet has a .350" diameter by .065" thick rim on a body Base diameter of .299" with a rapid taper to .277" diameter at .825" above the Base.
To use it at a 1.055" case length would require a shoulder be formed after trimming.
To use it at 1.125" length the shoulder could be formed before Trimming but at a steeper Angle than the Parent case.
Obviously all are possible but I am hoping for a Straight wall case rather than a Tapered or Shouldered one.
A straight walled case with a smaller diameter rim would also 'fit' the 8 shot cylinder idea better.
The replacement 8 shot cylinders I have been buying measure 1.415" outside diameter with the chambers on about a .937" diameter circle. the .295" diameter rim rebates have a .055" wall between them. These dimensions indicate that .350" diameter rims would be touching each other, with no clearance between them.
Also, the Larger rims would cut down the diameter of the Indexing ratchet and I don't know if that is advisable.

there is also the choice of Bullet diameters that Ruger would need to consider. Pistol .25 Cal. usually have employed .250"-.251" bullets while Rifle .25 Cal. have usually employed .257"-.258" bullets. Which is better in a Revolver application is the question facing Ruger.
Obviously, to me, providing the option of firing the .25ACP through the same revolver as the Longer choices is a good idea as it would allow a greater range of performance out of the one firearm.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Took a trip to the Angeles Shooting Ranges today with my Ruger.25ACP 8 shot revolver.

Shot about a Hundred rounds of different Manufacturer and some Hand loads.
First target = upper on the Frame; Hand loads and some PPU factory as controls; Group pattern roughly round and slightly Left of aim point (e.g.; about 1/2 diameter of Bullseye on "25 yard target" at a distance of around 5 to 7 yards).
63 grain Lead ahead of 3.0 grains of BE-86 gave some recoil, raising muzzle about twice the Target height and muzzle report was about that of a .22WMR. Holes looked all round and centered as stated.
52 grain Lead ahead of 3.1 grains of BE-86 gave slightly less recoil, about 1-1/2 target height muzzle Rise. group slightly smaller diameter. Muzzle report stronger than Factory but not sharp.
50 grain factory FMJ-RN; Relatively quiet muzzle report, soft in character; group centered as before, left of aim point and about on the same level.

NO "hang up' Problems this time!

Second Target = Lower Target used fo r50 rounds of Fiocchi 50 grain FMJ-RN Factory loads; one Fail To Fire, light Firing Pin hit indication. Tried this cartridge repeatedly and got he Same indication; NO Change In FP mark Depth? 49 rounds built a pair of pattern vertically separated by point of aim change.
First sequence was at aim point at 6 O'clock at bottom of black.
Second sequence was at aim point at 6 O'clock to red center of Bullseye.
Each group was roughly round and around 3 to 4 inches in diameter.

Conclusions:
1. The hint about Trigger finger is correct; no horizontal Stringing this time.
2. The 63 grain bullet over 3.0 grains of BE-86 is worth further experimenting. I need to load more Samples of this combination to check 'pattern Accuracy'.
3. The 52 grain Bullet over 3.1 grains of BE-86 is Worth investigating further, possibly with slightly more Propellant squeezed into the case, again I need to load more samples of this to check 'pattern accuracy'.
4. My Hold using my elbows resting on a Bench and two hand hold of revolver seems to help my 'weak hold' problem. I will need A LOT of Practice to get where I can hold the Muzzle up and steady with one hand.
5. Firing .25ACP between two people with Big bore Glocks is tiring to the Ears even with hearing protection and the occasional Hot Brass casing is distracting.
6. At least Today was a Reduced Price day.
7. A 'pistol' cleaning rod is too short to work.
8. sight 'windage' adjusted 'two clicks' to move muzzle and pattern Right. Will verify in next Range session.

NOTE: The Two charges named are NOT RECOMMENDED for "Blow-Back" Actions.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[victorfox]

Chev. William please check Handloader mag #302 june 2016. You might drop them a line they would probably publish your story... or should you contact Ruger? (page 24 by Brian Pearce). Maybe you could make a pretty penny, don't know... Best.

[Chev. William]

Seen, Read, and done back a ways in the Posts on this Thread.

Seems like Minds Thinking alike at about the same time.
I started My Project in November 2015. That Article did not come out until April 2016 so was 'in the Process' at least 90 days prior (typical minimum lead time for a Publication on a Monthly Schedule).
I sent Emails, with photos, to both Ruger and the Distributor. Got Acknowledgement from the Distributor, nothing from Ruger to Date.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[victorfox]

Oooops, my bad. I was not following this thread and just happened to get the magazine yesterday and said to myself "heck it's the same Chev. is doing"... and came fast find the thread and post here.

I don't know how these things work, but looks like you came first hands down. While they seen to be "talking about" you delivered the goods. I can only congratulate you for this idea and execution and sincerely hope it can do you heap more benefits from your cool -- still -- one-of-a-kind gun.

Best.

[Chev. William]

My primary benefit is a pleasant affordable hobby in my 'retirement years'.
A 1 lb, or 7000 grain, canister of propellant is reasonably priced on a Fixed Retirement Income. With Individual charges running 3 grains or less, down to 1.0 grains, there is A LOT of Shooting in a Pound.
Bullets are a Problem, being that I do not have casting equipment and being of an age when I Value my Physical Integrity that remains. In my youth I did take more 'chances' but was very lucky in that I had few injuries. Some scraped skin on occasion and one Broken Foot from a bad parachute Landing. Later in life I suffered a Fall while working that tore up my ankles and Calf muscles, from which I am Still recovering at this late date.

I have found that Forming Cases for my 'Experiments' is a challenge that I seem to have surmounted for Two Sources of parent brass.

.22 Hornet Cases reform to Longer .25 Stevens type Cases with an overall yield of about 95% finished sized Cases ready for trimming to needed Length, from a formed length of about 1.380".

5.7x28mm FN cases reform to the shorter range of .25 Stevens and .25ACP cases, via a multiple step swaging process, yields about 100% formed Cases of lengths varying form 1.215" to 1.260". These I trim to 1.220 to 1.250" for "6.35x32mmSR"; 1.125" for "6.35x28.6mmSR"; and 1.024" to 1.055" for "6.35x26mmSR" uses (I am mostly triming to 1.055" in the 6.35x26mmSR Experiments as that is the same Case Length as the ".22WMR" cartridge. I am Loading these to 1.350" maximum Overall Length to also match the ".22WMR" cartridge.

Experiments with the 1.024" length will come later, but I have a few loaded to 1.250" length with 50 grain FMJ-RN and 51 grain RFN Lead Bullets already for fit testing.

I am currently trying to get together a Chronograph setup that I can easily carry and set up at my local Commercial Outdoor Shooting Range yet trying to stay within my Budget constraints.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I am Happy to report that my gunsmith completed reaming the chambers in my Ruger 8 shot Cylinder and fitting it to my Frame (checking timing & etc.) so now I have two cylinders completed for my Ruger Single Eight .25ACP Revolver. One for .25ACP cartridges of .620" or less case length, and a second for longer Length ".250ALRM" cartridges and also Shorter Versions from 1.260" case length, and less. This work added $100 to the total costs of this Revolver to date.

I am expecting delivery of a Used Printer for my 'Super Chrony' F1 Master, then perhaps I will be able to measure some velocities out of my 10-5/8" barreled Revolver.

Looking Forward to some Fun Range Time.

I hope Everyone has a SAFE and ENJOYABLE July $th Weekend and Holiday.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Update of My Project:
A Pair of Photos of my Ruger .25ACP Single Eight:
These are Cylinders #1 and #4 of Four Planned cylinders.


Cylinder #1 on Left is .25ACP chambered. Cylinder #4 on Right is .250ALRM chambered.


Side View of cylinders with Cartridges partially inserted.
The .25ACP has a .905" OAL. The other Cartridge is a .25ALS of .1.125" case length and 1.350" OAL. The cylinders have a Length at the Chambers of 1.415".
A .250ALRM of !.250" case length needs to be loaded to a Maximum OAL of 1.405" to Function in the revolver.

The .25ALRM and .25ALS are made from Hornet Brass Swaged down to .276" Body Diameter and the rims Trimmed to .050" thick by about .308" Diameter to fit the chambers.

The Equivalent Sized Cases made from 5.7x28mm Brass are labeled 6.35x26mmSR, 6.35x28.6mmSR, and 6.35x32mmSR and have rims of about .312"-.314" diameter as Formed.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[victorfox]

There's much talk about "bad accuracy due to free bore". How this affect this particular project of yours?

I also want to suggest the mods to make i sticky, due to the awesomeness, details and because it provides a very cool solution to the .22LR shortage...

[Chev. William]

There's much talk about "bad accuracy due to free bore". How this affect this particular project of yours?

So far i only have experience to comment on the .25ACP in this revolver.

1. The Cylinder length at the Center Line of the .25ACP chamber is ~1.415" and The .25ACP Cartridges are A Maximum of .910" Overall Length, leaving a .505" smooth bore Cylinder throat BEFORE the Bullet transitions from the Cylinder to the Barrel Forcing Cone and into the rifling.

2. This is my First Long Barrel Revolver and it still feels slightly "Muzzle Heavy" to my hands. Previous revolver and pistol experience ranged from about 2" long to about 6" long in both Semi-Autos and Revolvers in .22LR, .32, .38, .44-40, and 45ACP Calibers.

3. At Present I average about a 3" to 4" diameter "Pattern" centered upon the Point of Aim at about 7 yards. This is about 50 Shots over time in each target. Interestingly, it seems both the Factory 50 Grain FMJ and Hand load 63 grain Lead bullets (slightly Hotter Loads) seem to impact about the Same Point of Aim, but this preliminary only, I have not fired many of the 63 grain loads yet. It is probable that the 'Pattern Size Will decrease over time with more Practice, my "Hold" will surely get Better.

[/QUOTE]I also want to suggest the mods to make i sticky, due to the awesomeness, details and because it provides a very cool solution to the .22LR shortage...[/QUOTE]

That is a Very Nice Complement, Thank You for suggesting that the thread be made 'Sticky'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Chronograph results of Load Testing on Tuesday August 16^th 2016.
At “Angeles Shooting Ranges”.

Instrument used: ‘Super Chrony F1 Master’ with printer.

Test Firearm:
Ruger New Model Convertible Single Eight in 25ACP and .25ALRM Cartridge Chambering eight shot Revolver with 10-5/8” barrel (~12” Muzzle to Breech/Recoil Face.

Test Setup:
Positioned on “Handgun Firing line in front of Permanent Target Frame about 5 yards from long Bench Type Firing line. Bench height about 38 inches.
A Stool was used for the Testing as a Seat for the ‘Shooter’.
Chronograph wsa Set up on a Tripod about 5 feet forward of the Firing Line. The Remote readout and printer were positioned on the Firing line bench.
The Printer and Chronograph were operated on Internal Batteries.
Altitude = ~ 1,680 feet Above Mean Sea Level, Temperature ~100 Degrees F.

Test Results:
Comparison run employing “Privi Partisan” (PPU) Factory Loaded (Made in Serbia) .25ACP 50Grain FMJ-RN ammunition manufactured under CIP Regulations and Controls.

Technical Information
· Caliber: 25 ACP
· Bullet Weight: 50 Grains
· Bullet Style: Full Metal Jacket
· Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:
· Muzzle Velocity: 771 fps
· Muzzle Energy: 66 ft. lbs.

Raw results(fps)
874.8; 771.8; 788.3; 913.1; 711.7; 725.1;778.3; 733.7;
742.3; 791.8; 706.4; 618.0; 691.1; 733.2; 745.7.
Max. = 913.1; Min. = 618.0; Average = 755.02, or ~755fps.

755/771 = 97.9% of stated Factory Performance (out of a 2” test Barrel) when fired from a Revolver with a 10-58” barrel. (-2.1%)

Hand Loads Tested:
#1. 50 grain FMJ-RN (Rem.), PPU Brass, WSP Primer, 2.7 grains of “Power Pistol” Propellant;
1118; 1220; 1170; 1278; 1190; 1273; 1130; 1189;
1201; 1302; 1244; 1195; 1136; 1213; 1188.
Max. = 1302; Min. = 1118; Average = 1203.1, or ~1203fps.
Calculated: 1302fps @ 17079psi and Actual 1203fps: -8.2%

#2. 63 grain Lead FN (Hunters supply), GFI Ni Brass, CCI SP Primer, Various Charges of “Bulleye” Propellant.
A. 1.36 +/-0.05 grains: 916.1; 876.8; 1042; error;955.5.
Max. = 1042; Min. = 876.8; Average = 947.6, or ~947fps.
Calculated: 937fps @ 14145psi and Actual 947fps; +1.1%
B. 1.39 +/-0.05 grains: 1162; 1075; 1060; 1150; 1104. (no Tape).
. : 1174 (case fail); 1056; 1030; 1129; 1288.
Max. = 1288; Min. = 1030; Average = 1122.8, or ~ 1123fps.
Calculated: 991fps @ 14808psi and Actual 1123fps: +13.3%
C. 1.43 +/-0.05 grains: error; 1164; 1179; 1149, FTF.
Max. =1179; Min. = 1149; Average =1164.0, or ~ 1164fps.
Calculated: 1009fps @ 15492psi and Actual 1164fps: +15.3%

NOTE: 1.46 grain data not taken/recorded.

D. 1.50 +/-0.05 grains: error; error; 1130; error; error.
Max. = 1130; Min. = 1130; Average = 1130, or ~ 1130fps.
Calculated: 1045fps @ 16925psi and Actual 1130fps: +8.1%
E. 1.53 +/-0.05 grains: 1062; 1070; 1028; 1066; 1043.
Max. = 1070; Min. = 1028; Average = 1953,8, or ~1054fps.
Calculated: 1063fps @ 17674psi and Actual 1054fps: -0.85%
F. 1.56 +/-0.05 grains: 1262; 1030; 1075; error; FTF.
Max. = 1262; Min. = 1030; Average = 1122.3, or ~ 1122fps.
Calculated: 1080fps @ 18445psi and Actual 1122fps: +3.9%
G. 1.60 +/-0.05 grains: error; FTF; 1354; 1138; 1210.
Max. = 1354; Min. = 1138; Average = 1234.0, or ~ 1234fps.
Calculated: 1097fps @ 19239psi and Actual 1234fps: +12.5%
H. 1.63 +/-0.05 grains: 1201; 1368; 1316; 1190; 1151.
Max. = 1368; Min. = 1151; Average = 1245.2, or ~ 1245fps.
Calculated: 1114fps @ 20058psi and Actual 1245fps: +11.8%
I. 1.67 +/-0.05 grains: 1239; 1182; 1231; 1096; 1278.
Max. = 1278; Min. = 1096; Average = 1205.2, or ~ 1205fps.
Calculated: 1131 fps @ 20696psi and Actual 1205fps: +6.5%
J. 1.70 +/-0.05 grains: 1297; 1375; 1243; 1238; 1329.
Max. = 1375; Min. = 1238; Average = 1296.4, or ~ 1296fps.
Calculated: 1147fps @ 21760psi and Actual 1296fps: +13%
K, 1.73 +/-0.05 grains: 1235; 1338: 1209; FTF; FTF.
Max. = 1338; Min. = 1209; Average = 1260.6, or ~ 1261fps.
Calculated: 1164fps @ 22849psi and Actual 1261fps: +8.3%
L. 1.77 +/-0.05 grains: 1229; 1257; 1232; 1289; 1276.
Max. = 1289; Min. = 1229; Average = 1256.6, or ~ 1257fps.
Calculated: 1180fps @ 23563psi and Actual 1257fps: +6.5%
M. 1.80+/-0.05 grains: 1266; 1268; 1214; 1241; 1242.
Max. = 1268; Min. = 1214; Average = 1246.2, or ~ 1246fps.
Calculated: 1196fps @ 24502psi and Actual 1244fps: +4.2%

NOTE: 1.84 grain Data not taken/recorded.

N. 1.87 +/-0.05 grains: 1311; 1275; 1175; 1214; Jam (not fired).
Max. = 1311; Min. = 1175; Average = 1243.7, or ~ 1244fps.
Calculated:1227 fps @ 26357psi and Actual 1244fps: +1.4%



3. 50 grain FMJ-RN (Rem.); GFI Ni Brass; CCI SP primer Propellant compare:

A. 1.50 +/-0.05 grains:”Bullseye”; 1188; FTF; error; 1179; 1278.
Max. = 1278; Min. = 1179; Average = 1215.0, or ~ 1215fps.

B. 1.50 +/-0.05 grains: “BE-86”: 1107; 1381; 996.2; 1147, error.
Max. = 1381; Min. =996.2; Average = 1157,8, or ~ 1158fps.
Conclusion: for the Same Charge Weight BE-86 Generates a lower Peak Pressure than Bullseye under the same conditions.

SUMMARY

Recorded data Results seems to vary from Calculated Values by Bilateral amounts. It is probable the sample size used is not adequate. It is also probable that the Charge Weights vary due to the Imprecise Scale used for the Charge Weight Resolution desired.
Due to the Low Value Charge Weights, in the range of 1.3 to 2.7 grains, and the marked Resolution of the Scale used, 0.1 grain, the interpolation of charges to 0.01 grain +/-0.05 grain is less than the observed variation in measured performance.

The instrument used has a measuring base of about 1 foot and four digit readout resolution but the full Accuracy and Resolution Specifications are not known at this time.

The factory Ammunition tested for comparison measured about 2.1% lower out of this 10-5/8” barrel compared to factory Test Barrel length of 2”. This is quite low compared to similar Barrel lengths tested By “Ballistics By The Inch” using a Single Shot Handgun with a Locked Breech and sealed length Barrel (no cylinder gap). They found a 10” barrel yielded Velocities about 28% increase in measured MV.

How much The Ambient temperature, and the temperature of the Instrument, which was in direct Sunlight, affected These Results is unknown at this time.

Overall, The confidence level in these results is low due to the reasons state in the summary but they ARE the Results obtained and recorded.

A hot day at the Shooting Range for a friend and I enjoying the 'frustration of "error" displays and FTF occasions.
I think I may have one chamber in my .25ACP cylinder too deep, more Work is needed to be sure.

Each of us "Hit' the Screens once, so we had to Patch/Jury Rig the pieces together to continue our testing. we were there form about 1000 to about 1600 then packed up and went to a restaurant for a Late Lunch and about a gallon of Iced Tea each.

Later today I will be Cleaning up my Revolvers that we fired yesterday, but I will wait for things to cool some, another Hot day here.

Best Regards,
Chev. William