Casting for a 470 Nitro Express

[TedH]

By a great stroke of luck, I recently became the proud owner of a new Krieghoff double rifle in 470 NE. It's a beauty of a rifle, but I just can't bring myself to spend the money for a box of factory ammo. The cheap stuff can be found for $275-$300/ 20 rounds. If I'm going to be able to shoot this thing at all, it's going to have to be fed with cast boolits. I'm not finding much in the way of molds and load data. Anyone with experience to share would be great.

[mstarling]

Ted,

I use a 500 grain bullet from a custom mold made by Ballisti-cast. Regulates in my Searcy using 45 gr of XMR 5744. I use Lar45's Carnauba Red lube and it gives me essentially no metal fouling. Accuracy has also been excellent with some single barrel groups being a ragged hole at 100 yards. Is a great practice bullet.

Have hunted it with 85 gr of RL-15.

I also load for the .375 H&H and the .458 AR. Here are the bullets:



Not shown is a bullet I make for the 9,3 x 62 and 9,3 x 74R.

Hope this helps some.

Mike

[Beaverhunter2]

Sorry- don't have experience, but while cruising the 'net today I saw some info on .470 NE on ammoguide.com. It said .470NE used a .475 boolit so the molds that fit .480 Ruger and .475 Linebaugh should get you started. Lee and RCBS both make 400gr PB models. Lee also makes a 325gr GC. Probably need "Load from a Disk" to get your powder charges, though.

I was going to say "Good Luck" but it's obvious you already have plenty!

Have fun!

John

[mstarling]

John,

The problem is not that there are not lots of .475-.476 bullets available. Double rifles are regulated (that is the barrels are soldered together in such a way) that they group rounds from the pair of barrels ... without crossing ... close to each other at a specific distance. This is usually 50 yards. The weight (and to a lesser extent the shape) of the bullets used are important as they affect how the rifle regulates.

Finding bullet weight near the jacketed bullet for which the rifle was originally regulated that has a shape that works and can be driven with the same bore residence time ... is just a bit of magic and good fortune.

mike

[TedH]

Thanks for the info Mike. Mine was regulated with Federal 500 gr. ammo. I had considered a mold for a 480 Ruger but figured it would shoot too far from point of aim. I can't find any reasonably priced brass or dies right now anyway. Every place is out of stock. I talked to the good folks at Hornady and they are going to have brass and bullets available later this year. Hopefully they will make some dies that are priced normally too. I just don't see why everything for this cartridge has to be 10X the price of the everyday cartridges. I'm sure it cost's a little more to make the stuff on a limited run, but come on, $300 for 20 rounds of ammo? Gimme a break.

[mstarling]

Ted,

Is an RCBS die set on http://www.accuratereloading.com which is a board you want to join! CH4D also makes dies ... they are cheaper, but required being cleaned up in a lathe.

Brass is a problem right now. The usual suppliers are expensive (Normal, Federal). Jamison International (who bought out BeLL) is buried in military orders at the moment. Hornady is supposed to be coming out with ammo and brass. Should be "less expensive" than Norma, but don't expect miracles.

Drop me a note on e-mail if you want more info, or I can be of more assistance.

Thank you,

mike

[HollandNut]

My doubles regulated fairly well with lighter cast boolits , the 400 for the 480/475 may werk OK ..

Takes a bit of experimenting , but can be done .. Brass is a pain , dies I think mine were about $400 , but doesnt take long to recover that money in a 470 ..

I think then you have the Khoff with the funky safety ...

Usually they are regulated to POA with the right barrel , and the left is brought as close as feasible to the right one .. And that depends on the maker , most high dollar English are happy with 2"-3" at 55m or so ..

Searcy seems to be the tighest I have seen ..

[HollandNut]

I will see if I can find some of my 470 cast data , may put you in the ballpark ..

[TedH]

I'd appreciate it.

[Nakihunter]

I am new here and want info on this old thread. Any updates?

I want to use the Lee mould for 400 gr bullets at 2000 fps or so for a regulated role in a 470 Double rifle.

Please help.

[15meter]

I am new here and want info on this old thread. Any updates?

I want to use the Lee mould for 400 gr bullets at 2000 fps or so for a regulated role in a 470 Double rifle.

Please help.

I use a Noe mold with 5744. You don't need to match either boolit weight or speed to get double rifles to regulate for practice loads.

Pistol weight boolits at slower speeds can usually be regulated quite nicely.

When I get in the shop I'll dig out my 470 N.E. data, currently using Accurate 5744. As soon as I unload some of these I'm going to try some Trail Boss.

I load for the 470, 450,(2) 450/400, 400/350 9.3x74r and an 8x50r, all in double rifles. All but the 9.3 I've gotten to regulate with reduced loads and the 9.3 is getting close to where I want it.

It is a blast to shoot these old doubles with reduced loads.

[fredj338]

I would probably cast for a 470 but really, if you are not going to shoot it a ton & jacketed bullets would be pretty easy, if not a little expensive. Try Accurate for a good mold.

[rking22]

Seems kinda like a great big 22 hornet, like t rex capable
Just gotta watch this thread, looks like a rrally cool project!

[15meter]

This is what plinker loads in a 470 do to an oxygen cylinder


This was my Halloween lantern last fall, but upright. Sorry about the sideways photo.

[murf205]

Go to Accurate Molds catalogue and look up a 48-510N. Tom designed this for 470 doubles and it looks like it would be a smash hit (pun intended) on game. You are going to need a TALL reloading press with a big window opening to load this long cartridge. I have used H4831 with good results. Remember this when shooting doubles. Most of the time you need to get the 2nd shot off as soon as you can comfortably get back on target because of the heat transfer to the unfired barrel. Some don't respond to this and some do. Only shooting it will tell you. I use a magnum primer 'cause you are lighting a LOT of powder. It's a hoot to shoot.

[Nakihunter]

Greetings from New Zealand.

Thank you for your reply. I am new to casting. Reloading for 25 years.

I have a Lee 400 gr mold - new. I hope to try casting in the next few days.

We do not seem to have 5744 powder here in NZ. We do get Trailboss, 4350, 4831, Re15 and most of the others. We get Vihtavouri powders here I I have N160 & N560 in stock - 2 or 3 lbs each.

We do not get Ramshot here.

I was hoping to get the 2000 fps with 400 gr cast bullets for a reduced load that would regulate. It would be great to get an even slower load to regulate.

I need to make a decision about what to add to the Wheel weight ingots which I melted up a couple of days ago (another first).
Do I just add 50/50 solder & how much?

Do I water quench them or do I oven heat treat them? I definitely do not want leading in the barrel!

I do not plan to size or gas check the bullets. I will pan lube them. A friend in the US who has shot a lot of double rifles including cast loads does this.

I would appreciate any help.

[15meter]

I know you said you don't get 5744 over there but here is my load:38 grains of 5744 over a standard Winchester primer using a Noe 480-375-RF(GC). Nominal weight of 375. I forgot to write down the as cast weight IIRC ~390 grains. I sized @ .476" and used a gas check.

Tried 40 grains and got very light leading, but my buddy and I shot that rifle until the barrel was WARM.

All 80 are loaded right now, hope to unload some week after next. It's off to Oshkosh and the air show next week

Trying to drive them @ 2000 fps without a gas check maybe a challenge. Good luck and if I get some unloaded and reloaded with Trail Boss I'll post it.

If I remember

[15meter]

Go to Accurate Molds catalogue and look up a 48-510N. Tom designed this for 470 doubles and it looks like it would be a smash hit (pun intended) on game. You are going to need a TALL reloading press with a big window opening to load this long cartridge. I have used H4831 with good results. Remember this when shooting doubles. Most of the time you need to get the 2nd shot off as soon as you can comfortably get back on target because of the heat transfer to the unfired barrel. Some don't respond to this and some do. Only shooting it will tell you. I use a magnum primer 'cause you are lighting a LOT of powder. It's a hoot to shoot.

What he says about a TALL press, Rockchucker is not tall enough, I tried. Ended up using my Lyman T-Mag. And yes it is a hoot to shoot.

[243winxb]

Nakihunter

Very little tin is needed if heat treating or water dropping. Other wise 2% tin is good. How much 50/50 to add, no idea. Its mostly a guess what is in the wheel weights.

A minimum of 2% Antimony is needed to heat treat or water drop. May take bullets a week to fully harden. Antimony makes bullets hard and larger in diameter.

If using ww as is, you must oven heat treat. Imo.

A minimum of 15 bhn is needed.

From Rotometals

Basic Rules for Hardening Lead-

For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 (Antimonial Lead) + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )

[Nakihunter]

I cast some yesterday. I am now looking for the right sizing dies to go with my Lee and Redding single stage press. I found NOE website has the bushing system which looks good and also very reasonable - http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.p...th=564_104_410.

Lee do not have a standard product for 476 cal. RCBS do but I am not sure how to use it unless I have a separate RCBS or Lyman lube sizing press