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Thread: Calling all 32-20 handgun shooters.....

  1. #41
    Boolit Mold Penrod's Avatar
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    I just bought an 8 lb. keg of the new Winchester 244 to use with a ton of 9mm. It appears to be quite similar to W231 and I'm wondering if it might be a good powder for a mild load in my Colt Police Positive Special .32-20. I wrote to Hodgdon about it and they only said it was unlikely it would be tested in .32-20 anytime soon. If I chronograph the loads and keep the velocity under 1000 fps, would that be prudent? Or incredibly foolish?

  2. #42
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penrod View Post
    I just bought an 8 lb. keg of the new Winchester 244 to use with a ton of 9mm. It appears to be quite similar to W231 and I'm wondering if it might be a good powder for a mild load in my Colt Police Positive Special .32-20. I wrote to Hodgdon about it and they only said it was unlikely it would be tested in .32-20 anytime soon. If I chronograph the loads and keep the velocity under 1000 fps, would that be prudent? Or incredibly foolish?
    To match factory ammo goal is 800 fps and try to keep them under 900 fps in a 6-inch barrel.

    This is what common factory loads do:

    Factory .32-20 Ammunition in Rifle and Revolver

    Ammunition Description___________Colt Police Positive 5”_____Savage Sporter 25”
    Rem-UMC 100-grain lead
    Kleanbore “Dogbone” box 1930s______898, 44 Sd, 116 ES________1302, 15 SD, 38 ES

    Peters 100-grain softpoint
    Kings Mills, Ohio 1940s_____________870, 28, 71______________1150, 44, 137

    WRA 100-grain lead
    Red & yellow box 1950s____________854, 33, 87_______________1263, 18, 53

    W-W 100-grain lead
    Rounded primer, yellow box, 1970s____800, 11, 31______________1241, 9, 22

    W-W 100-grain lead
    Flat primer, white box, 1990s_________778, 27, 69_____________1172, 18, 65

    R-P 100-grain lead
    Bridgeport, CT 1970s________________780, 24, 67____________1181, 17, 52

    R-P 100-grain lead
    Lonoke, AR current production________716, 21, 55_____________1140, 12, 35

    Column Mean by Gun_______________5” Revolver______________25” Rifle
    Average Velocity of Factory Loads_____814 fps._________________1207 fps

    Standard Pressure Handloads for Rifle or Revolver

    Bullet, Little Dandy#, Pdr. Chg.____Colt Police Positive 5”______Savage Sporter 25”

    Accurate 31-105T
    Attachment 220070Attachment 220071Attachment 220075

    LD#4, 3.4 grains Bullseye__________798 fps, 27 Sd, 60ES________1153 fps, 20 Sd, 72 ES

    LD#4, 4.9 grains AutoComp________912 fps, 19 Sd, 53 ES________1315 fps, 32 Sd, 118 ES DO NOT EXCEED!
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    This is certainly an old thread. I know since I started it.

    To update everyone, I started switching over to Unique. However, I unexpectedly managed to find about 2-1/2lbs of SR 4756 at an auction. Two cans were sealed. I unsealed them, checked the smell (no problems), then checked the grains against an ounce or two of my original SR 4756. Under a 20x magnifier, the grains looked identical. So I shot up the Unique and got back to SR 4756. Since then, I have finished off the partial can and have started on one of the full ones. The way my health has been going, I probably have enough to last the rest of my life. Maybe.

  4. #44
    Boolit Mold Penrod's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. My Colt PPS is a 6" bbl so I will take Outpost75's advice and hold velocity in the 800's. I still have some SR4756 left and will try that per Harry O and Ken Waters. In Pet Loads Mr. Waters seemed to strongly feel the wide variation in accuracy boiled down to wide ES with certain bullet/powder combinations.

    By the way, what's the general feeling around here as regards Ken Waters' case base measurement system for estimating pressure? It appeared to me to be a decent method of estimating relative pressures and would keep you out of trouble. On the other hand, it might just be the ticket to GET you in trouble! It seems like many writers USED to swear by it and now I never see anyone mention it. Perhaps there's a good reason no one mentions it anymore???

    I would love to try the powders between WW231 and AutoComp in the .32-20 in an effort to find that unicorn load.

  5. #45
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Case head measurement for pressure isn't going to give safe or meaningful results in low-pressure handgun calibers and it is only marginally useful in full charge rifle loads.

    In high pressure rifle rounds like the .308 Win., 5.56 and .270 Winchester, taking the same new or once-fired case and repeatedly reloading it until the primer pocket appears looser by feel is a better indicator.

    If the primer pocket in a .30-'06 case stays snug for ten reloads the load is safe. A .270 or 5.56 might not make ten reloads in a full charge, but absolutely should not be noticeably looser and easy to seat a primer after five.

    If primers seat easily after five reloads the charge is WAY too hot!
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  6. #46
    In Remembrance Reverend Al's Avatar
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    I haven't got around to reloading any .32-20 handgun rounds with any of my old stock SR4756 yet since I'm still using up the last of my old Dupont No. 6 Pistol!

    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    There are a ton of powders that work well in the 32-20 in revolvers. I have had good luck with Green Dot, Unique, Herco and Power Pistol to name a few. While not stellar, the S&W I fooled with most would stay in 3" at 50 yards, and had a terrible bore that I had to firelap the snot out of. The 32-20 wasn't the problem child for me that many report. Maybe I got lucky this time

  8. #48
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Al View Post
    I haven't got around to reloading any .32-20 handgun rounds with any of my old stock SR4756 yet since I'm still using up the last of my old Dupont No. 6 Pistol!

    Where do you get your powder, Reverend Al, the Victoria Museum of Technology? Those are some historical cans there! They should put to rest any questions we’ve been seeing here about using “old” powder... that stuff qualifies a ancient. What hurts is, I used to see some of those cans when they were new! I guess a classic can of powder for a classic cartridge is just appropriate!

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  9. #49
    In Remembrance Reverend Al's Avatar
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    LOL ... well, I think that I AM the Victoria Museum of Technology when it comes to reloading gear and components! I've been reloading since I was 17 and I'm 65 now. Over the years I've been given or have scrounged up and bought a fair bit in the way of old hand reloading tools and old components. (I have two shotgun clay target boxes full of old shotshell hand tools for example.) I'm still working my way through a bunch of these old components like the powders in the photo (as long as they still smell "sweet") with good success so far.
    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    I bought a pound of 572 awhile back. There little or no data at the time but 4756 data was supposed to be safe/interchangeable. It seemed to work out OK. I don't know for sure it works the other way but why wouldn't it if one were careful.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Al View Post
    I haven't got around to reloading any .32-20 handgun rounds with any of my old stock SR4756 yet since I'm still using up the last of my old Dupont No. 6 Pistol!

    That "snap top" can of Hi-Vel brings back memories of my first reloading press, a Lyman Vandallia, that I used to load shotshells with when I was a young'un in 1960. Red Dot came in the same type can and I used enough of it to decimate the squirrel and rabbit population around my home. Nice collection you have there Al
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  12. #52
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I've still got a couple of pounds of 4759 like that old green one... of course they've been refilled from bulk a time or two. I've also got an even lighter green colored 4759 can with the same scenario. Any one of them sure looks good on the bench at a schuetzen match.

    Reverend Al, I've got a small collection (accumulation?) of older cans as well, but it's easy to admire some neat ones like yours. I'm especially impressed with the Curtis and Harvey and those two green DuPont cans peeking out from the back row. One of these days I need to make up some sort of nice display of the empty cans, maybe when I build my "man cave."

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  13. #53
    In Remembrance Reverend Al's Avatar
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    Thanks Froggie! I'll have to shoot a photo of the entire shelf full of old powder tins down in my reloading shop ... there are a few more of them! (I'm not a hoarder ... I'm an "accumulator!)

    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  14. #54
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Al View Post
    Thanks Froggie! I'll have to shoot a photo of the entire shelf full of old powder tins down in my reloading shop ... there are a few more of them! (I'm not a hoarder ... I'm an "accumulator!)

    don't make me take a picture of that full 1 pound can of Dupont 3Fg black powder with the paper label with the 1906 date on it...

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Case head measurement for pressure isn't going to give safe or meaningful results in low-pressure handgun calibers and it is only marginally useful in full charge rifle loads.

    In high pressure rifle rounds like the .308 Win., 5.56 and .270 Winchester, taking the same new or once-fired case and repeatedly reloading it until the primer pocket appears looser by feel is a better indicator.

    If the primer pocket in a .30-'06 case stays snug for ten reloads the load is safe. A .270 or 5.56 might not make ten reloads in a full charge, but absolutely should not be noticeably looser and easy to seat a primer after five.

    If primers seat easily after five reloads the charge is WAY too hot!
    I would not use that anymore than I would the thoughts of measuring case stretch for this day and age.
    I have loads for modern guns that I know are over the top, no brass issues.
    There are just so many variables to cover that when one of the "signs" shows up we are usually wayyyyy wayyy past the danger zone. Barsness or Pierce did some work on this subject some time back. Bone stock factory rifles, when bolt lift got sticky or brass had swollen pressures were rediculous. One rifle just had a large chamber but still within factory specs.

  16. #56
    Boolit Man
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    just found this thread and it is timely. I have an old Blackhawk 30 carbine. It hates 30 carbine rounds.. they will tie it up. that is the bad news.. the good news is that because it has the extra space the old ones had between cylinder and recoil shield.. 32-20 brass (once trimmed a tad) will drop right in and the cylinder rotates easily and cases eject nicely. I have been running cast and HT coated bullets (.309) from 100-130 grain in the gun. I am using WW231 .. so far the loads are right around 900 fps from this 7.5" gun.. with such a big heavy single action the recoil is almost nothing as is the blast. Turned a safe queen problem child into a fun.. flat shooting plinker.

    lazs

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    lazs: Ruger's have a reputation of having tight chambers. Also, I have a Marlin Model 62 that has a tight chamber. The .30 Carbine cartridges that worked well in my M1 Carbine would sometimes jam in the Marlin. I checked the cartridges and found that I needed to trim a few of them that were just 0.001" overlength and to use the taper crimp die just a little bit deeper. Once I did that, the cartridges worked in both the Carbine and the Marlin.

    I would not be surprised if this was the case with the Ruger, based on other Ruger's I owned with tight chambers. Not to discourage anyone from using 32-20's, but the .30 Carbine brass can take a LOT more pressure. I use the 32-20's at moderately high pressure (28,000 to 32,000psi), because at high pressure (40,000psi or so) they will only last a few shots before leaving the front half of the case in the chamber. Getting it out without damaging the chamber is a *****.

  18. #58
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks Harry... I think I tried everything. I used a Lee trim die which trims way down to minimum. Like you I thought 30 carbine brass is tough and cheap... . no matter what I do the carbine brass ties up the gun. I used digital calipers and the mouth is at or below specs on my loaded rounds. If it was just one brand of .30 carbine I would say... ok.. but it is every type from surplus stuff to high dollar off the shelf factory loads and all my handloads. I am at minimum length now... the cylinder spins nice and free till you fire the gun 6 or so times... then it is tied up and won't spin at all.. the rounds need to be pounded out with a dowel.

    lazs

  19. #59
    Boolit Master
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    lazs: Sorry to hear that. Just remember that your gun can take a LOT more pressure than 32-20 brass can. Don't go as far as .30 Carbine loads with 32-20 brass (approx 40,000psi). Even so, if you hold it down to 28,000 to 32,000psi (and the brass will last quite a while at that pressure) that is a LOT more powerful than factory loads. Also, use Starline brass for ALL high pressure loads. It definitely is heavier (thicker walls) than Winchester or Remington brass.

  20. #60
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry O View Post
    Also, use Starline brass for ALL high pressure loads. It definitely is heavier (thicker walls) than Winchester or Remington brass.
    Very sound recommendation. Starline 32/20 brass is excellent stuff.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check