.450 BPE vs 45/120?

[Thundermaker]

I'm going to have a double rifle built. The gentleman building it threw so many options at me that I can't even remember them all. He said he could do anything from .577bpe on down with the action I brought him. Now, the action I have is an old hammer gun. I decided that I wanted a big, traditional, black powder cartridge.

I've narrowed it down to two options. They are .450 BPE and .45/120. I know these are very similar cartridges. Does anyone have any pros or cons for either one?

[Nobade]

Well, Norma makes 45/120 cases and they are fairly easy to get and not horribly expensive. .450 BPE may be a bit more difficult to come by and pricier. Performance is pretty much the same.

Another thought is rifling twist. Are you going to load it with big bullets or little express bullets? Choose your twist accordingly.

-Nobade

[dtknowles]

Hornady sells 450 nitro express brass that works in most 450 BPE guns. Like Nobade said twist will be as important as brass. I think the 450 case has more taper and that might be good if the extractor is weak.

Tim

[elk hunter]

I have some experience with double rifles so based on that experience I would size the cartridge to the action. I'll make the assumption that you're using a shotgun action. For Black Powder cartridges, not full Nitro, a 20 gauge action would pair up well with the 450 size cartridges. A 16 gauge action would be a much heavier finished rifle in 450 size but would make a dandy 500 BPE rifle. A 12 gauge action, which would be more common, would be extremely heavy for either of the above cartridges. If I were starting with a 12 gauge action I would opt for the 577 BPE in either 2 3/4" or 3" and would regulate it for 650 grain bullets.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[dtknowles]

I have some experience with double rifles so based on that experience I would size the cartridge to the action. I'll make the assumption that you're using a shotgun action. For Black Powder cartridges, not full Nitro, a 20 gauge action would pair up well with the 450 size cartridges. A 16 gauge action would be a much heavier finished rifle in 450 size but would make a dandy 500 BPE rifle. A 12 gauge action, which would be more common, would be extremely heavy for either of the above cartridges. If I were starting with a 12 gauge action I would opt for the 577 BPE in either 2 3/4" or 3" and would regulate it for 650 grain bullets.

Just my 2 cents worth.

My 450 BPE double rifle seems about 410 size but heavier.

Tim

[Thundermaker]

I have some experience with double rifles so based on that experience I would size the cartridge to the action. I'll make the assumption that you're using a shotgun action. For Black Powder cartridges, not full Nitro, a 20 gauge action would pair up well with the 450 size cartridges. A 16 gauge action would be a much heavier finished rifle in 450 size but would make a dandy 500 BPE rifle. A 12 gauge action, which would be more common, would be extremely heavy for either of the above cartridges. If I were starting with a 12 gauge action I would opt for the 577 BPE in either 2 3/4" or 3" and would regulate it for 650 grain bullets.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I am using a shotgun action. To be more specific, it's a 12 gauge Remington model 1889. I wanted hammers.

[Huvius]

The standard load for the 450BPE was 120grs for a variety of bullet weights so there will be zilch between them performance wise.
The 450 has a thinner rim than the 45/120 but should not be an issue but one must be mindful that full power 450NE cartridges will fit where it is unlikely that one would run into full power factory 45/120 ammo.

[Thundermaker]

The standard load for the 450BPE was 120grs for a variety of bullet weights so there will be zilch between them performance wise.
The 450 has a thinner rim than the 45/120 but should not be an issue but one must be mindful that full power 450NE cartridges will fit where it is unlikely that one would run into full power factory 45/120 ammo.

Out of curiosity, is anyone besides kynoch still making 450 NE ammo?

Anyway, on further research, it seems that the 450 has more case taper than 45/120. Seems to me that this would be advantageous as far as extraction goes.

[dtknowles]

Out of curiosity, is anyone besides kynoch still making 450 NE ammo?

Anyway, on further research, it seems that the 450 has more case taper than 45/120. Seems to me that this would be advantageous as far as extraction goes.

Hornady makes 450 NE brass and cartridges, I bought 20 of each as that was all I could find when I started loading for my 450 BPE double rifle. Yes, the 450 has more taper than the 45/120. No, I did not fire 450 NE in my 450 BPE and I have the pulled bullets to prove it

Tim