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Thread: How about 17 Remington from 223 brass?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    How about 17 Remington from 223 brass?

    Alright, I asked about making 17 Fireball from 223 brass. It seems like a lot of work, so how about the 17 Remington from 223 brass using both commercial or military brass.
    Trying to decide on a barrel in 17 cal to put on a Savage action. Looks as if I am leaning to the 17 Remington at the moment.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    triggerhappy243's Avatar
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    not sure you would want a 17 anything. 223 rem. will do anything a 17 will do but better and cheaper. shoot, I can reload 223 rem. cheaper than what 17 hmr costs me.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triggerhappy243 View Post
    not sure you would want a 17 anything. 223 rem. will do anything a 17 will do but better and cheaper. shoot, I can reload 223 rem. cheaper than what 17 hmr costs me.
    Not really sure about that since 17 j words are much cheaper. Does not really matter. I just want to know about making the brass and how it is working for those doing so.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    .223 ends up a little short but can be done in one step using your 17 die. Depending on your rifles chamber you may or may not have to turn the necks or ream them. I would anneal your brass first. Norma is really good brass if you don't want to mess with case forming. A 17 Rem with a 25 grain vmax will do everything better than a 223 if varmints and targets are your medium. Much flatter trajectory with minimal differences in wind drift. No one gives the 17 any love till they see how good they shoot and shoot one in person. If you have a heavy barrel rifle, the scope doesn't blur when shooting and you get to see the affects when varmint hunting.

    I would have the rifle chambered in 17/223 or 17/204 with a no turn neck. This will make life easy and brass cheap if you base it off the 223.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofaaast View Post
    .223 ends up a little short but can be done in one step using your 17 die. Depending on your rifles chamber you may or may not have to turn the necks or ream them. I would anneal your brass first. Norma is really good brass if you don't want to mess with case forming. A 17 Rem with a 25 grain vmax will do everything better than a 223 if varmints and targets are your medium. Much flatter trajectory with minimal differences in wind drift. No one gives the 17 any love till they see how good they shoot and shoot one in person. If you have a heavy barrel rifle, the scope doesn't blur when shooting and you get to see the affects when varmint hunting.

    I would have the rifle chambered in 17/223 or 17/204 with a no turn neck. This will make life easy and brass cheap if you base it off the 223.
    Thank you, that is what I was hoping to hear.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by triggerhappy243 View Post
    not sure you would want a 17 anything. 223 rem. will do anything a 17 will do but better and cheaper. shoot, I can reload 223 rem. cheaper than what 17 hmr costs me.
    It's quite simple to make 17 Remington brass from 223. Just a pass through an FL die and your ready to go. It comes up .050 short but that doesn't affect anything.

    I have to respectfully disagree on the 223 doing better the the 17 at everything. I've killed truckloads of coyotes for fur with the 222, 223, 22-250, 220 Swift, 6mm, 257 Roberts and lastly the 17 Remington. Nothing has matched the 17 for preventing fur damage. Nothing. And I'm not talking about a small cross section of coyotes but hundreds of them over the span of 25 years. The 223 can be a fur friendly round as can the rest of the rest of the 22 centerfires. The 222 comes the closest to the 17 in fur friendliness of any of them but can be hard on them with the wrong bullet or a fringe hit. The 17 Remington coupled with a Hornady 25 grain HP is in my opinion the finest fur hunting round ever developed. I will admit I have no experience with the 204 Ruger but have heard great things about its fur friendliness from guys whom I fur hunted with prior to moving away from coyote country.

    Please do not misunderstand me. I'm not saying the 223 is a bad round or the 17 is a better overall round. I am not. The 223 is a great round. It can be a great fur round and it is cheaper to shoot for than almost any other centerfire rifle round. But when it comes to fur hunting the 17 Remington wins hands down.
    Only left handed guns are interesting!

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    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Looks like I opened a can of worms, when all I want to do is save enough to re-barrel a Savage to 17 remington.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    You'll love the 17 Remington. Rebarrel the Savage and enjoy. Hornady 25 grain HP's over 24 grains of IMR4320 and a Remington 7 1/2 primer and it will provide you years of great shooting.
    Only left handed guns are interesting!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by brstevns View Post
    Not really sure about that since 17 j words are much cheaper. Does not really matter. I just want to know about making the brass and how it is working for those doing so.
    Not shooting down your endeavor here... 17 j's are more money than the bullets I use.(about $10.00 per 100 for .224, to $16.60 per 100 for 17's). And yes it is possible to neck down 223 brass to make 17 rem. never said it can't be done. I have a friend who had one of the 1st 17 rems.... It was a Remington M-700 BDL, ultimately sold it because it was a pain in the rear to reload..... because the best powders for it.... were stick powders which you will need to hand weigh. they also will bridge in your powder funnnel while dumping into the case. Now I have never owned a 17 rem. The 17 i own is a 17 HMR.... which is a rimfire. If you have not researched extensively into the 17 center fires, please do so before you rebarrel.

    And (Gofaaast) QUOTE: A 17 Rem with a 25 grain vmax will do everything better than a 223 if varmints and targets are your medium. Much flatter trajectory with minimal differences in wind drift. UNQUOTE: the 17 is limited to 3 bullet weights. the .223 is limited to 27 different bullet weights and over 200 combinations. But that is none of my business. You may own a 17 centerfire and love it. I don't... and I won't.

    brstevns, I hope the 17 works out beyond your expectations.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triggerhappy243 View Post
    Not shooting down your endeavor here... 17 j's are more money than the bullets I use.(about $10.00 per 100 for .224, to $16.60 per 100 for 17's). And yes it is possible to neck down 223 brass to make 17 rem. never said it can't be done. I have a friend who had one of the 1st 17 rems.... It was a Remington M-700 BDL, ultimately sold it because it was a pain in the rear to reload..... because the best powders for it.... were stick powders which you will need to hand weigh. they also will bridge in your powder funnnel while dumping into the case. Now I have never owned a 17 rem. The 17 i own is a 17 HMR.... which is a rimfire. If you have not researched extensively into the 17 center fires, please do so before you rebarrel.

    And (Gofaaast) QUOTE: A 17 Rem with a 25 grain vmax will do everything better than a 223 if varmints and targets are your medium. Much flatter trajectory with minimal differences in wind drift. UNQUOTE: the 17 is limited to 3 bullet weights. the .223 is limited to 27 different bullet weights and over 200 combinations. But that is none of my business. You may own a 17 centerfire and love it. I don't... and I won't.

    brstevns, I hope the 17 works out beyond your expectations.
    Where do you find 22 cal for 10 cents and are they HP or Soft Points?

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    Boolit Buddy birddog's Avatar
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    Ya gotta love the 17. It's report is quieter than the 22 cals and bullet fragmentation is better with the 17. It goes in but seldom comes out.
    Charlie

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by brstevns View Post
    Where do you find 22 cal for 10 cents and are they HP or Soft Points?
    midsouth shooters supply varmint nightmare extreme HP's

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I shoot the 55 gr. HP. but they have a variety of weights and tip types.

  14. #14
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    I thought you were shooting cheaper than the 17 cal guys can shoot. .17 cal Nightmares are $8.50 a hundred and shoot good but the trajectory with them is getting down close to 223 trajectory with light bullets past 300 yards. No pissing match just facts where they can be used and my opinion and experience in the others. My 250 loves those 50 grain sp nightmares. I will stick behind my quote 243. If my medium is outside of varmints, targets or predators I leave the 17 at home, it's not much use. I grab my 243 or 25-06 the list goes on. If I am in wide open coyote country I like to have my 25-06 along for the 400 plus shots that present themselves a few times each year. I have a 223 bolt gun, and it is a fine shooter. Some day I will cast for it and shoot boolits out of. I bought it for the scope that was on it, and to have a short action if I want to have a rifle built.

    IMO a 17 to 223 comparison's only similarity is the case. A 17 vs 223 comparison is similar to a 25-06 vs 308 comparison.

    When the fur you are hunting is worth good money the .17 shines bright. When you want to watch varmints blow up while watching through the scope it shines. If your in a PD town and want less report it shines. If you are near urban areas or livestock and want to minimize richots and noise it shines. If you want to show off and take peoples money at the range, more times than not it shines. It is a joy to shoot, but I don't think we will be running boolits through them unfortunately.

    What barrel maker are you leaning towards? I was going to get a pacnor back when I was looking to have one built before I found the one I wanted all along, but almost gave up on finding.
    Last edited by Gofaaast; 11-17-2015 at 02:46 AM.

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    Boolit Master
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    I did not know there were 17 cal. varmint nightmare ext. ooops, my bad. I shoot my 223 at distances from 250 yards and 550 yards. longest confirmed kill on a prairie dog was 564 yards with a 50 gr. spitzer bullet. I have a 22-250 also, its longest confirmed kill on the same ranch was 620 yards. 60 gr. sierra hollow point. I do not shoot for fur. the ranchers only want to see dead pests. And if the 17 is best in that dept. then go for it.

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    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Thanks guys! Now know were to go to look for bullets.

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    Boolit Mold
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    I know I'm a little late to this parade but, if you use 204 it necks down a lot easier and it comes in just a tad long necessitating cutting the neck down to length. As for .223 cases, use good lube but sparingly. If you see indents along the taper, I believe it is from the lube vaporizing due to the heat of compressing the brass. I usually use short stokes, like bouncing the die down to the final bump. They are just a tad short, this has caused me some problems in my AR. Bullets coming out of the case, bullets sticking in the bore upon dropping the mag and racking the chambered bullet out of the gun, things of that nature. since I am using a Shilen Bull barrel, i normally shoot bench. Therefore, I use a block in my mag well and load each round separately. Which has had a surprising extra benefit. I don't spray my rounds, I take a little more time to line things up. Which means I don't "blow my wad" in 5 mins, and I hit more squirrels. anyway, thats my two cents worth. Any questions, ask away.

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    I have been a fan and proponent of the 17 since the late 70's and have campaigned a 17 Remington, 17 Bee and 17 hornet for many years. Anyone who has read P.O. Ackleys reloading books will appreciate his insight into the 17's. It is the only cartridge that I have ever reloaded where the powder charge exceeds the bullet weight (27 grains 4320 behind a 25 grain bullet). I have shot goats, sheep and big hogs with this diminutive bullet. I have never needed a second shot with it either.

    I have a double ended die that necks down 223's to 20 then 17. I have also run them through a FL 223 nd formed them in one swipe.
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I've been a 22-250 fan since 1972, in my experience (and others) it is the King of Vamint cartridges. That said, the .17 Remington is a neat round. One of my best friends has a .17 Remington 700 BDL. We used to hunt at night for coyotes on down and it dropped them and the lesser varmints instantly with Remington or Hornady bullets. Daytime crows were a black feather bomb, and one day, we saw some curious deer as we sat in camo calling for predators. A small 6 point offered Jim a textbook shot at 60 yards. He fired, the deer lept up, turned around and caught another bullet and fell dead. The two Remington. 17 bullets were in a two inch group from different directions. Yes, they exited- but the heart was splattered. Our theory at the time was that the 4000+ fps did it. Its legal in Texas, but he went back to his .308 for deer.
    While I'm rambling, I also think that the .204 Ruger would be a blast.
    AND I want a Tikka or CZ .17HMR!


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  20. #20
    Boolit Mold
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    Stubshaft, Who makes that die?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check