Got a deer with my JES rebored Winny 94 in 35/30-30

[missionary5155]

Greetings Outdoorfan and Congratulations !
That was a good write up and I thank you ! I am another one looking at this cartridge. Have an old ugly 94 some one black spray painted trying to cover the pitts and rust. Have enough caliber 38 rifles so that 35 looks appealing.
Thank you for all the follow up info about brass and cartridge you have added.
Mike in Peru

[outdoorfan]

Mike, thanks for posting. If I recall from previous posts of yours, I think I remember you saying that you have some early model 94's. If that's the case, do you have an understanding of the strength of the steel used in those early ones, even pre 1900?

[blixen]

Congrats on the buck! I also have been thinking about a 35/30-30 rebore for my Marlin mod. 30. Where'd you get your dies? From what I've seen they're pricey.

[DougGuy]

That same exact boolit strike with a .357 magnum and you might have never retrieved that deer. Good job!

[outdoorfan]

Congrats on the buck! I also have been thinking about a 35/30-30 rebore for my Marlin mod. 30. Where'd you get your dies? From what I've seen they're pricey.

CH4D. Around $80.

That same exact boolit strike with a .357 magnum and you might have never retrieved that deer. Good job!

Yeah, that could be very true. There was very little tissue (especially vital tissue) disrupted. However, my go to load in the .357 has the same meplat and only 200 fps less velocity. The alloy is also softer, so any possible expansion would probably also initiate a little sooner with the 357.

Anyway, I sure feel fortunate.

[outdoorfan]

Btw, although I really like the convenience of resizing in a custom sizing die from CH4D, there are other ways to resize these cases with dies people may already have on hand.

[Maximumbob54]

CH4D. Around $80.



Yeah, that could be very true. There was very little tissue (especially vital tissue) disrupted. However, my go to load in the .357 has the same meplat and only 200 fps less velocity. The alloy is also softer, so any possible expansion would probably also initiate a little sooner with the 357.

Anyway, I sure feel fortunate.

Care to share that load data for the .357???

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I have been using the JES rebore to 35-30-30 in a Winchester 94 for a number of years. You can take fired 30-30 cases and neck expand with a 38 special powder through die or equivalent M-die, re-prime, and start working up a load with your favorite boolit. THEN , trim to length, and get serious about the load. Mine like the 208 grain RCBS boolit. That establishes a fire formed minor shoulder that you don't need to worry much about anyhow, as HS is rim controlled in the 35-30-30. Get real dies later at your convenience.

I also have a JES 356 W on a Marlin action and it uses the same RCBS boolit. I have taken several deer with it and like it better than the Winchester as it is easily scoped. It also easily meets near 356W factory load velocities without issues. This is on a near new pre safety Marlin that is tight and built right and with the JES work and 3 grooves. BTW sometime back GRAFF was giving a price break on Redding custom dies if you bought then through them.

BvT

[outdoorfan]

I have been using the JES rebore to 35-30-30 in a Winchester 94 for a number of years. You can take fired 30-30 cases and neck expand with a 38 special powder through die or equivalent M-die, re-prime, and start working up a load with your favorite boolit. THEN , trim to length, and get serious about the load. Mine like the 208 grain RCBS boolit. That establishes a fire formed minor shoulder that you don't need to worry much about anyhow, as HS is rim controlled in the 35-30-30. Get real dies later at your convenience.

I also have a JES 356 W on a Marlin action and it uses the same RCBS boolit. I have taken several deer with it and like it better than the Winchester as it is easily scoped. It also easily meets near 356W factory load velocities without issues. This is on a near new pre safety Marlin that is tight and built right and with the JES work and 3 grooves. BTW sometime back GRAFF was giving a price break on Redding custom dies if you bought then through them.

BvT

Thanks for bringing your experience into play here. I agree that the .356 has got to be about perfect for a heavier big game rifle.

Care to share that load data for the .357???

C358-180-RF group buy, 16 grains Lilgun. It's a max load.

[TXGunNut]

Good report on a project nicely done! I think the 35-30 may make more sense than a 35 Rem these days, just depends on what you have lying around.

[outdoorfan]

Very true!

[BAGTIC]

Why fire form? 30-30 brass headspaces on the rim. One is merely enlarging neck. Load your regular charge in the case, seat bullet and shoot. If a load is safe in a preformed case it will be safe in an unformed case. If you have a chronograph you will probably find the unformed cases will give more uniform velocities than fire formed cases.

[gc45]

My 35 is the 356 Winchester, great gun and caliber that hits very hard.

GC45

[35Whelen]

Gotta love the 35's. A buddy gave me two boxes of Remington 30-30 cartridges for helping him get his hands on a Ruger Hawkeye in 358 Win. I was down in the loading room puttering about. Took an empty 30-30 case....lubed the inside of the case neck using #8 shot and powdered graphite, ran my 35 cal neck sizing die over it carefully and opened it up cleanly in one pass.....it was like pushing through butter. ( never have I experienced easier neck expansion, than by using the shot and graphite) At any rate. After opening it up, I ran it into my M die for 358, placed a 360-240A boolit into the neck and carefully seated it to the crimp groove. Made it up as a dummy round without depriming. Looking at it I thought damn !!!! You know what that would make a very cool short range timber or truck gun in a single shot ( sorry not a lever gun guy). I then googled 35-30/30 and found out it is likely one of the oldest wildcats out there. Very neat looking round....and now the wheels in the head are spinning round and round. Any ideas of a single shot for that caliber? Contender, Falling block, break open? I'm all ears....Looking for a round that will propel the 240 grain FP to around 1800 fps...quiet, no kick and stomps deer decisively ?

[35remington]

Let me caution you that brass that grows in length as much as you state after every shot is a clear sign the rifle is being overloaded. Think about why the brass is growing that much in terms of action stretch/bolt yield and it will become clear why that is so.

[outdoorfan]

Let me caution you that brass that grows in length as much as you state after every shot is a clear sign the rifle is being overloaded. Think about why the brass is growing that much in terms of action stretch/bolt yield and it will become clear why that is so.

I hear ya, but my opinion is that the load is very safe. Perhaps there is another reason why this is happening?

[35remington]

Not given the other clues so far. Back the loads down. If case stretch per shot is reduced you have confirmed your culprit. It is easy to pinpoint the cause.

That much stretch per shot is a clear sign of excessively flexing lockup. The gun is sending you warning signs via this bolt yield. Some of your numbers indicate ridiculous stretch per shot. Since the cases likely were not shot with the same load repeatedly you likely do not have a clear picture of what is going on.

Notable case stretch per shot should always set off the warning sensors in your brain when shooting leverguns. The velocity level of some of your posted loads seems to confirm the "too much pressure" hypothesis. Some of your loads are faster than they should be and your case stretch seems to be verifying it.

[outdoorfan]

Thanks for commenting. I read your articles (and commentary on the other forum) on the 35 Remington. They (articles) are superb, and also what got me interested in this project. Thanks! I would have gone with the 35 Rem if the brass (and rifle platform) was more available at a reasonable price, or at least the prices that were common when I started this.

Anyway, the 35/30-30 and 35 Remington have almost identical case capacity. And your own testing (and others) on the 35 Remington shows that a 220 grain jacketed bullet can be safely launched at notable speeds behind hefty charges of Leverevolution, among other slower burning powders. So, I extrapolated that I could safely launch a 230 grain lead bullet at less velocity and less powder charge than what you (and others) do. Did I miss something there?

Now, I have noticed some case stretch that is best remedied by trimming after each firing. It is true that I haven't noticed or documented this down to an exact science as to exactly how much case stretch is going on.

You bring up a good point about the action of the rifle yielding slightly which you say is causing the stretch. I'm wondering if the long neck of the 30-30 case also plays into that making it seem worse than it really is. I don't know. The 35 Rem has such a short neck in comparison.

My opinion is that the load is safe from a pressure stand point, unless I've missed something. Or maybe my rifle's action isn't as strong as it should be. Once again, I don't know. I don't see my load as any worse from a pressure standpoint as your load or other people's loads that are similar. So, I ask again, am I missing something? I don't want to be unsafe.

Btw, your idea of dropping down the charge a bit and repeatedly testing case stretch is a good one, and I might do that eventually.

[35remington]

Some of your powder selections, combined with bullet choice, are pushing the limit given indications that are occurring.

The case stretch is strongly suggesting some of the loads are getting to be excessive. Not blowing up the gun is not the only thing to look for in assessing load suitability. Case stretch is a pressure clue from a pressure measuring device....your gun.

The bottom line is what is occurring with your gun, not with another gun using a different cartridge and different powder and a different bullet. With the loads generating notable stretch, back off substantially and see if it slows greatly. If it does the loading was the culprit.

A prudent use for a case is often said to be to demote it from full power use after its third trimming. Since ten thou separates the "trim to" length from the max length, this means some of your loads are generating about six full power reloads before retirement. This is very subpar in terms of action and case stress. Cases ain't cheap either, even former 30-30's.

Do not keep using repeatedly trimmed cases. The brass is coming from somewhere, and that spot is the case wall above the solid head.

[bruce drake]

You've convinced me to do a test run for my 32 Winchester Special chambered Win94 with the 8MM Maximum mold I have that drops out at 240gr. My Win94 has the 1-16" twist as well.

And congrats on the deer! Could you have least waited until he caught the doe so he could have died with a smile on his face?