Traveling for Competition Question

[DRNurse1]

I encountered a situation on a recent trip to a nearby state for a pistol match: Residents there need to carry documentation that they actually own the firearm in their possession if asked by a competent authority. Some of my firearms do not have said paper trail and I wish to avoid imprisonment or confiscation of said competition tools if a competent authority happens to inquire.

Other than not travelling there to compete, any thoughts on a reasonable course of action/ prevention for me?

Additional information: I can obtain a state (mine) document that shows the firearm was transferred to me and I passed the instant background check on a particular date for the mere sum of $30 per firearm and the inconvenience to my wife (more costly than the fees, to be sure!). I am not certain that will prove rightful possession to these aforementioned competent authorities, but it is a simple process from my perspective.

Residents of the state in question must pay much more, submit to uncertain delays/ wait times, and such other infringements on their rights as their state requires for the permission to possess their firearms, and I am fairly certain that, as a non resident, I would be denied such permission.

Any thoughts, comments, recommendations, or anecdotal experiences would be greatly appreciated during this fluid phase of my research.

[NavyVet1959]

I think you could rightfully argue that no authority in that state is "competent".

[DRNurse1]

Navy Vet (hey, me too!) is correct but I don't suppose arguing that point if handcuffed at the roadside is a wise decision. Boy Scouts taught me a lot of things including to Be Prepared.

[NavyVet1959]

Navy Vet (hey, me too!) is correct but I don't suppose arguing that point if handcuffed at the roadside is a wise decision. Boy Scouts taught me a lot of things including to Be Prepared.

If you have gotten to the point where you have been handcuffed, I would hazard to guess that you have already lost the argument.

[country gent]

Check with states attorney generals offices. Both your homes state and states in question. If possible get this in writing so you can have it with you traveling. It used to be if it was legal mode of carry in your home state it was legal for your trips, but explaining this roadside to an officer may not work out real well and some jurisdictions you may need a lawyer and a few days to get it understood by the powers that be. Cased with ammo in seperate container and inaccesable to driver or passengers is somewhat accepted everywhere. As for the paperwork check with attorney generals office as to non resident requirements in the state in question.

[DRNurse1]

Thank you Mr Country Gent.

Federal rules seem to be honored Firearms and ammunition separate and locked, inaccessible to driver. I heard NJ considers magazines, even empty, in the receiver constitutes a loaded firearm (???), so the magazines need another locked box in that state.

The other glitch with competition is that while I am participating, the firearms are uncased, loaded and in use. So, while the competition is not necessarily the final destination for the day trip, I am using the firearms (as they are intended!) in the 'foreign' state.

It seems some entities are asking for proof that I am in legal possession of my firearms, and they do not accept, "because my wife said so" as sufficient proof. Some of my competition firearms are over 30 years old so no paperwork.

[country gent]

Send e-mail or letter to the states Attorney general asking for information it may actually be as simple as a noterized letter stating what is what is all thats rally required for non residents. You need to find out what a non resident is required to comply with. Then get it in writing and sighned. I to traveled competiting ussually ajoining state but sometimes thru several. ( NRA High Power service rifle competitor and Ohio STate adult team member). You should see a officers eyes light up when he uncases a welded up state issued M14. LOL WHile I couldnt own it the STate association could issue it to me. Always had the paper work for it in the butt trap holes. It can get interesting at times. Some of the events covered several days so thow in hotel rooms or camp grounds along with transport and it could be a chore complying with everything.

[DRNurse1]

Mr Country Gent:
Exactly the issues I am trying to avoid! State AG written directions (there are 50, okay 48 in CONUS, and the rules change!!!) and up to date paperwork seems to be the general and appropriate theme. It looks like a long winter writing letters to get ready for next summer's matches. Ugh. Seems like there should be a simpler way to stay legal.

[shtur]

Look up the Navy matches in California. They had requirements for out of state competitors and have the forms on their website. You might find a form that meets your requirements, then you could print it out and get it notarized.

[DRNurse1]

FWIW: the technical rules for New Jersey include obtaining a Firearm Identification Card for the price of $5 and permission to research your past. This "FID" allows one to travel throughout the Garden State with legally owned and stowed firearms and ammunition [Firearms, magazines, ammunition in separate/ dedicated and locked containers out of the passenger compartment (or out of reach from the driver's seat in one compartment vehicles) according to the Federal firearm transportation guidelines] stopping as needed for food or fuel.

As far as taking you firearms out of said locked containers and competing in a match, it is anyone's guess. I was told the NJ law is intentionally vague and likely conflicts with Constitutional interpretations however I do not want to be the test case to find out for sure.

I fail to understand how making this process so difficult for me increases the safety of anyone in Trenton, Atlantic City, or Passaic. That is right safety is an illusion and we are guaranteed only life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Well, these hoops are not increasing my happiness and the information NJ requires for this FID thingy seems to infringe on my liberty.

I will let you know what I find out as this FID thing progresses. It is interesting to note that my profession requires a background check and I traveled in that profession so I have had them as often as every 13 weeks, plus my Military clearances and background checks needed for my work there. I think the NJSP will be wasting their time researching me but it is the most fun I have had for $5 in a long time.

[SSGOldfart]

Wife's friend lost his grandfather's( wedding gift) gun while traveling through NJ he has a Texas"CCL" the pistol was in a locked case inside of a locked duffel bag in the truck,he was stopped for a taillight being out. they asked to search after having him open the trunk,saying that the duffel bag could hide a body.so with out thinking about the pistol he told them to go ahead. He was booked for having a weapon.we wired his new wife bond money to get him out of jail before he was late for his new duty station. Yes he was in dress uniform(just married) at the time. You would think the officer could have given him a break after all the pistol was in a locked case in a locked duffel bag, located in the lock trunk of his car.I'll never go through NJ again if I can't drive around it or fly over it I won't go.. please be real careful in NJ... btw bail bonds are 15% to25% instead of the normal 10% charged every where else.

[Petrol & Powder]

DRnurse1, can you be a little more specific about the states involved?
The law gets funky when we start mixing state and federal stuff. Despite common perception, federal law does not always "Trump" state law. Sometimes federal law can supersede state law but sometimes you can find yourself in compliance with one and in violation with another; kind of a weird by-product of our concept of duel sovereignty.

I commend you for trying to do the right thing, that is always the wiser way to go. My advice would be to learn the applicable state laws and do what you need to do to be in compliance with those laws first. Then, and only then, look to federal law to make sure you're in compliance with federal law also.
Do not rely on federal law to protect you from state level prosecution. It is possible to be in compliance with federal law and be violation a state law at the same time. In that situation the state law controls and you can find yourself in jail.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Wife's friend lost his grandfather's( wedding gift) gun while traveling through NJ he has a Texas"CCL" the pistol was in a locked case inside of a locked duffel bag in the truck,he was stopped for a taillight being out. they asked to search after having him open the trunk,saying that the duffel bag could hide a body.so with out thinking about the pistol he told them to go ahead. He was booked for having a weapon.we wired his new wife bond money to get him out of jail before he was late for his new duty station. Yes he was in dress uniform(just married) at the time. You would think the officer could have given him a break after all the pistol was in a locked case in a locked duffel bag, located in the lock trunk of his car.I'll never go through NJ again if I can't drive around it or fly over it I won't go.. please be real careful in NJ... btw bail bonds are 15% to25% instead of the normal 10% charged every where else.

Buddies Are headed there (NJ) for a goose hunt. I'm not one to tell them too plainly, but they are nuts.

One other place was (MD) talk about an other bad state for guns. I asked why can't you guys fine a PA out fitter.

[DRNurse1]

DRnurse1, can you be a little more specific about the states involved?
The law gets funky when we start mixing state and federal stuff. Despite common perception, federal law does not always "Trump" state law. Sometimes federal law can supersede state law but sometimes you can find yourself in compliance with one and in violation with another; kind of a weird by-product of our concept of duel sovereignty.

Do not rely on federal law to protect you from state level prosecution. It is possible to be in compliance with federal law and be violation a state law at the same time. In that situation the state law controls and you can find yourself in jail.

Surprise: NJ, NY, and MD are the lucky nearby states with upcoming outdoor conventional pistol matches. Federal transportation rules are nearly clear so I do not expect to run afoul of them. The issues so far are NJ requirement to 'prove proper ownership' of firearms in one's possession and just not understanding the MD rules (convoluted is not nearly descriptive enough for the various state county and local rules in NY and MD!). Then arriving at a match in either state, I will have to un-box and actually use my firearms for a time. Next, after properly re boxing my firearms, ammunition and magazines for transport, I need to travel home.

Advice regarding NJ is to obtain a Firearms ID card from the NJ State Police, thus providing proof needed that I can possess said firearms in the state. The little glitch at the match site remains. MD and NY are still pending further information.

I started the process in NJ (only $5.00 !!!) but am having trouble finding the correct paperwork to submit to the 'local' NJSP barracks. I had hoped to clarify things before the Spring matches begin....in 2025!

It is interesting that "legal" firearm owners in one state are not recognized more simply by other states, especially where this impacts interstate travel and commerce. Maybe another good reason for national concealed carry.

[jdr34]

I reviewed the online NJ state firearms laws, and I couldn't find a reference to a requirement on proving firearms ownership upon demand from a LEO, possibly it was a municipal law. NJ is a state with many traps for the firearms owner. State laws are supplemented with municipal laws (520 municipalities, many, north of I-195, like Jersey City, have some pretty draconian laws). I'm not up to speed on the requirement for a NJ FID for a visit to hunt in NJ. I have only heard and can only find a reference to the requirement for folks who are legal residents of other states, but are residing in NJ must have an FID. I've never run into anyone from out of state who wanted to hunt in NJ, but good luck.

[StrawHat]

Years ago I competed in several states and Canada. I was able to obtain the information you are seeking from the folks or Departments running the match. They should know what it takes for the competitors to legally attend and compete.

Kevin