.32 ACP "Balls Up" Serious Loads with Accurate 31-087T

[Outpost75]

I don't know who designed Accurate's 31-087T bullet for the .32 ACP, but I would sure like to thank him!

This design is for sure the best ever for this cartridge, as well as for the .30 Luger, .30 Mauser, 7.62x25 Tok and similar rounds. In a steel frame .32 ACP you can approach .380 ACP energies, serious butt kick!

It is a reliable feeder, with good meplat and deep penetrator. When cup-pointed ala Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com you get an 80-82-grain bullet, which will expand to .50 cal. plus at .32 ACP velocities when cast in soft 1:30 tin/lead alloy.

This is the do all to end all maximum effort bullet for the .32 ACP AS LONG AS you are NOT shooting it in a Keltec, OR as a steady diet [over 1000 accumulated rounds] in the Beretta Tomcat, in which case it is a frame cracker! But my Beretta 1935, Colt M1903, Walther PP, and CZ27 all love it!

Most recent chronograph data, but be advised that your mileage may vary:

.32 ACP Hand Loads OAL 0.945”, Starline cases, CCI 500 primers

Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

Accurate 31-077B 5.9 #2400____913 fps, 16 Sd_____ ___957 fps, 15 Sd
Acc. 31-077B 3.0 Unique_______965, 26 Sd__Approximates Buffalo Bore
Acc. 31-077B 3.0 AutoComp____837, 10 Sd____________957, 16 Sd

Acc. 31-087T 3.0 AutoComp+P__843, 18 Sd_____________962, 19 Sd
Acc. 31-087T 5.6 #2400_______825,15 Sd______________926, 14 Sd

Acc. 31-090B 2.0 Titegroup_____818, 12 Sd____________902, 16 Sd
Acc. 31-090B 3.0 AutoComp+P__915 fps, 16 Sd_________999, 14 Sd
Acc. 31-090B 5.2 #2400_______821 fps, 23 Sd_________878, 20 Sd

Acc. 31-095T 2.5 AutoComp____741, 25 Sd___________840, 6 Sd
Acc. 31-095T 5.2 #2400_______750, 17 Sd___________874, 13 Sd

Hdy 85XTP.312” 3.0 AutoComp+P__853, 23 Sd_________976, 8 Sd
Hdy 90XTP.309” 3.0 AutoComp+P__868, 12 Sd_________968, 17 Sd
Nor 93FMJ .307” 3.0 AutoComp+P__856, 6 Sd_________933, 11 Sd
 
REF: .32 ACP “WW2 Vintage,” Current Euro-CIP and Buffalo Bore +P Factory Ammunition

Ammunition _______________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

WW2 Geco Steel Cased FMJ____907 fps, 14 Sd_________977 fps, 11 Sd
WW2 WRA 73-grain FMJ_______923 fps, 28 Sd_________1001 fps, 15 Sd
RWS 73-grain FMJ____________896 fps, 29 Sd__________981 fps, 16 Sd
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ__________848, fps, 32 Sd_________917 fps, 11 Sd

Avg. 73-gr.“Hardball” Velocity__894 fps________________969 fps
Avg. 73 gr. “Hardball” Energy__128 ft.-lbs.____________150 ft.-lbs.

Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN_________883, fps, 6 Sd__________997 fps, 7 Sd
Buffalo Bore 75-grain Energy______128 ft.-lbs.____________164 ft.-lbs.

Attachment 152492Attachment 152498

Butt kicking, kick a$$ serious loads for .32 ACP!!!!!!

[Mk42gunner]

If there was ever a cartridge and powder that I didn't think would go together, it would be the .32 ACP and 2400.

Glad it is working for you.

Robert

[petroid]

If there was ever a cartridge and powder that I didn't think would go together, it would be the .32 ACP and 2400.

Glad it is working for you.

Robert

My thoughts, exactly. Who'd have thunk it?

[Outpost75]

Here is same bullet profile from Accurate, simply adjusting the base diameter to .357-.358 for .380 ACP,
Tom already had this for the 9x18 Makarov, so somebody out there is thinking!

Attachment 152499
Attachment 152500

[FergusonTO35]

Wow. I thought I was hardcore with my Accurate 31-076 at 890 fps in my Kel-Tec!!

[LouisianaMan]

Outpost,
Your enthusiasm for .32 ACP is certainly contagious! After dabbling briefly in "mouseguns" some years back, my focus on .38 S&W led me down a different path & the small autos helped pay for the revolvers (sigh).

Suffice to say that a .25 FN 1906, .32 FN 1910, and .32 FN 1922 have followed me home within the past week! I already have a Husqvarna m/07, a Swedish-made licensed copy of Browning's FN 1903, in 9mm Browning Long (also works fine with its .380 conversion barrel & shortened spring). Doggoned if there's not 4 clean Baby Brownings to choose from in a local gunshop along with a beauty of a S&W Mod 30-1, all calling my name! And yes, a M1903 Colt as well.

Anyway, a couple quick comments & questions on your krackenboomer .32 ACP loads.

First: is there any need to worry about getting stronger (Wolff?) springs or the like, or can I rely on the weight of the steel 1910 and 1922 to handle the load? Made in Europe where hot .32's were typical fodder for those guns, I suspect they're "good to go."

Second: the square-cut, full caliber holes of your flat-nosed and/or cup-pointed bullets are impressive. Clearly visible in your photos, easily distinguishable from the typical crinkly, torn-edged hole caused by FMJ, often closed back up to sub-caliber diameter even in target paper! So, in true cast bullet fashion, meplat rules!

Third: since you've gotten expansion to .50" from the cup points, how deeply did they penetrate in your target medium?

Finally, perhaps Beretta's wide-slide Inox version of the Tomcat has eliminated the slide cracking that bedeviled the early models. My brief flirtation with the improved Tomcat was some 6-7 years ago, and I recall the manual specifying 130 fpe ammunition as the max one should use in the gun. That meant essentially the 71g/900 fps and 60g Silvertip or XTP "American" power levels. Has the improved Tomcat completely resolved those earlier problems? That's likely old news, but I'm Rumpelstiltskin just waking back up to .32's.

Thanks for opening my eyes to the potential of the pocket & service pistols of yesteryear!

[Outpost75]

I'd shot over 2000 rounds of RWS hardball and my 87-grain cast loads from my Tomcat with no issues until recently, when the frame of my Model 3032 INOX finally cracked during a recent range session firing the heavy bullet loads. If you own a Tomcat, pop open the tip-up barrel and inspect the left slide rail above the trigger pivot hole!

Attachment 177116

If you don't fire your Tomcat multiple thousands of rounds and limit use of the heavy loads to occasional test and emergency use you should be OK, but be warned!

I recommend their use in STEEL FRAME guns only and recommend replacement of stock factory recoil springs with heavier duty Wolff replacements, as used in the .380 versions of the same model, where feasible.

I did replace old springs in my 1903 Colt with Wolff replacements.

The cup point bullets which expanded to .50 cal. penetrated 18-20" in water jugs, probably equating to about 11-12" of gelatin. Adequate.

[Davy Sprocket]

You have given me hope. I have a Spanish Ruby that doesn't like 71-73 gr American ammo. Now it can be more than a single shot.

[Outpost75]

My experience has been that current American .32 ACP ammo simply doesn't function the WW2 and earlier guns.

Chronographing pre-1950 US commercial .32 ACP ammo, it is a different breed of cat than modern "lawyer ammo"

Modern Fiocchi, RWS and Sellier & Bellot 73 grain ammo functions my WW2-era pistols just fine and that velocity is approximated in RWS or Fiocchi brass with Winchester primers, 71-grain FMJ bullets and 2.4 grains of Bullseye at 0.975" OAL. That exceeds published data from Alliant by a bit, but I've shot thousands of them in my guns and the load seems safe.

.32 ACP “WW2 Vintage,” Current Euro-CIP and Buffalo Bore +P Factory Ammunition

Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

WW2 Geco Steel Cased FMJ_______907 fps, 14 Sd_________977 fps, 11 Sd
WW2 WRA 73-grain FMJ__________923 fps, 28 Sd_________1001 fps, 15 Sd
RWS 73-grain FMJ_______________896 fps, 29 Sd__________981 fps, 16 Sd
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ_____________848, fps, 32 Sd_________917 fps, 11 Sd

Avg. 73-grain “Hardball” Velocity___894 fps_______________969 fps
Avg. 73 grain “Hardball” Energy____128 ft.-lbs.____________150 ft.-lbs.

Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN_________883, fps, 6 Sd__________997 fps, 7 Sd
Buffalo Bore 75-grain Energy______128 ft.-lbs.____________164 ft.-lbs.

[LouisianaMan]

I've shot over 2000 rounds of RWS hardball and my 87-grain cast loads from my Tomcat with no issues.

I have stuck with stock factory recoil springs in my Berettas and CZs, old and new.

I did replace old springs in my 1903 Colt with Wolff replacements.

The cup point bullets which expanded to .50 cal. penetrated 18-20" in water jugs, probably equating to about 11-12" of gelatin. Adequate.

That all sounds good to me. Clearly the Tomcat is holding up to an amount of work that few pocket pistols will ever see.

Also, my guns' recoil springs feel normal, not slack or easy, so I'll work with them until otherwise indicated.

The expansion & penetration results you've experienced are equal to or better than commercial or handloaded HP/JHP's I've tried, with few exceptions. All in all, sounds like you've paved the way to making some very effective modernized options in .32 ACP. While not an elephant gun, it's no mere long-distance icepick, either.

[Outpost75]

Key is using the soft alloy and having the cavity geometry of the bullets optimized for subsonic velocity. For carry loads I would fill the cavity with paraffin wax to serve the same purpose as the plastic jelly bean inserts in the Hornady Critical Defense.

Yes, you get some leading, but these are not high-volume shooting guns, so brush the bores once in a while.

Accuracy is quite good enough for short range and a couple magazines. Another solution is to put a few rounds of hardball in the bottom of each mag to mitigate the leading, and considering that after the first two double-taps, anyone not hit is behind cover and FMJ isn't a bad idea.

[Markbo]

I finally understand what this smilie is for

= .32 acp

[Bigslug]

Outpost, I tip my propeller-equipped mad scientist beanie to you! I'm waiting on enough players to get the 75 grain Ranch Dog up and running over at NOE, but yeah, you got something pretty darn cool and intriguing there. An 87grain .32 Auto loaded for a slow burn with 2400. . . It's like a .45-120, only smaller.

[9.3X62AL]

2400 powder and SP Magnum primers are outside my experience in the 32 ACP. Outside-the-box thinking really fascinates me, and those ballistics from the short Tomcat barrel are impressive. These loads compare closely to what Russia did with the Makarov......taking blowback operation and caliber capability close to the limit to achieve enhanced performance. I see some similar things getting done soon here with Lyman #313249 in my Walther PP.......gradually and carefully.

[carolina sorillo]

First off, I'm new here and found this thread using a Google search for ".32acp Alliant 2400".

I have also been playing with .32's for a while. I have a Kel-Tec and Llama in ACP and my everyday carry is a Smith J-frame in .327, which is a .32 caliber beast! Due to the lack of availability of .22 ammo for the past few years, my affection for the .32's and the abundance of .32ACP brass in my possession I got rid of all my .22's and acquired a Marlin 1892 in .32 Colt "parts gun". I reamed the chamber so that it now accepts .32s&w and .32ACP. I have 2 decent loads using Rim Rocks 78gr lrn, 1.7 and 2.5gr Unique. The 1.7gr load is quiet but leaves ALOT of unburned powder. I've been thinking about trying 2400 to take advantage of it's slower burn in the 24" rifle barrel. I've been using WSP primers do I need magnum's.


Do I need to start another thread for this?

C.S.

[Outpost75]

I load #2400 for a .32 ACP bolt action rifle converted from a Remington 580, and for a .32 S&W Long break-open single-shot which was built on the tiny pre-WW2 H&R .44/.410 shotgun frame. I also use the .32 ACP loads in my Beretta 3032 INOX, CZ 27 and Walther PP, the .380 loads in an M1934 Beretta and a Ruger LCP, and the .32 S&W Long loads in two late-1960s Colt D-frame revolvers.

Attachment 158512Attachment 158513Attachment 158514

My experience has been that in tiny cases, such as the .32 ACP, .380 ACP and .32 S&W Long, using somewhat heavy bullets for the caliber, such as Accurate 31-087T in the .32 ACP, 36-125T in the .380 ACP and 31-134D in the .32 S&W Long, that using Federal 200 or WSP primers and a lightly compressed nominal caseful of powder, about 5.6 grains in .32 ACP, 6.3 grains in .380 ACP and .32 S&W Long, that you get safe and satisfactory results, with good accuracy and a clean burn with minimal unburned powder.

These loads have not been pressure tested, but I have shot lots of them with no issues in my guns.

Your mileage may vary. I cannot speak to the relative strength of the Kel-Tec or Llama compared to my Berettas, Walthers and Rugers. I can say that with less than a case full of powder and with standard weight bullets, you don't get effective combustion or acceptable ballistic uniformity with #2400. It requires a heavy bullet AND a case full of powder with no airspace. Ejected cases showed no signs of high pressure, and Alliant #2400 is so slow that I really don't think you could get enough into these small cases to get into any trouble. However this is absolutely a "gray" area beyond the load books and neither the powder manufacturers nor the reloading manual publishers recommend this, so just because I am a bit nuts and experiment beyond the norm, I am not recommending that YOU do it.

Many people view this as a "hold my beer and watch this!" moment, but I have been doing this for a long time and used to get paid to destruct test and blow up guns for a living. You are more likely to blow up a pistol using a small charge of fast burning powder combined with an undersized bullet and improperly sized case with inadequate bullet pull, to prevent "bullet push" which lets the bullet telescope back into the case against the powder charge, than you are using a compressed charge of slow powder which firmly supports the bullet base in the same manner as was recommended back in the stone age when everyone used black powder.

I used compressed charges of RL7 or 4198 in my .44-40 rifles, and have tested these for pressure than they are within SAAMI limits and safe for the 1873 Winchester. I think using #2400 in the .32 ACP with its limited case capacity is performing in a similar manner and if ejected cases do not show head swelling from high residual pressure during initial extraction, the loads are safe. In a LOCKED BREECH gun, such as your Marlin rifle there are no issues whatever. Often recommended loads with the fast burning powders which quickly generate their maximum peak pressure are more worrisome if you mis read a scale or accidentally double charge, which WILL blow up a gun. You can't double-charge with #2400!

[9.3X62AL]

When Outpost writes something, I read it and pay close attention. Many thanks, sir.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Having a WW2 `trophy bring back` CZ 27 in .32 acp also I am wondering what dia. are you sizing this boolet to for use in the CZ and what type of lube?Robert

[carolina sorillo]

I use 2400 in .45 Colt+p and .327 and really like it. It meters waaay better than Unique and fills the case too(like you said, no double charges). I have done some loading "off the book" but I usually have some published data at least in a similar cartridge somewhat close. But for the .32ACP the closest 2400 published data I've found is s&w long.
Your experience with the heavy bullet makes since. Unfortunately, the only large bullet I have on hand is a 115gr rnfp. I'm pretty sure it can't be made to cycle in a pistol. However, it may be just the ticket in the Marlin.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge,
C.S.

[Outpost75]

For over a year now, my friends and I have been experimenting in trying to approach .380 ACP payload and velocity as close as can be done safely in sturdy, steel-frame .32 ACPs. Alliant #2400 appeared at first to be the safest powder to experiment with bullets over 80 grains, because you can't get enough into a .32 ACP case to get into trouble. As bullet weight and seating depth increase, powder capacity is reduced, which is self-limiting.

Accurate 31-087T with 5.6 grains of #2400, metered from RCBS Little Dandy Measure Rotor #7 is compressed, giving over 900 fps from a 3.4” barrel and 825 fps from the 2.4" barrel of the Beretta Tomcat. It is a well proven, safe load.

Substituting the heavier Accurate 31-090B, which has a shape like the Buffalo Bore, but with longer nose to provide 0.94-0.95 overall cartridge length, powder capacity is limited by its increased seating depth. You can't seat the 090B bullet deeply enough over 5.6 grains of #2400 to reach the crimp groove, due to powder compression. The next smaller RCBS LD rotor #6 drops 5.2 grains, but powder combustion was less than perfect and unburned powder granules left in the chamber caused function problems, so reducing #2400 for us was a non-starter. So, we needed a different powder...

Pulling down some Buffalo Bore 75-grain rounds, they contained 3 grains of an unidentified Ball powder. When researching potential propellants I came across Winchester AutoComp, which is the darling of IPSC shooters for high performance loads in the .38 Super. Its burning rate compares to HS6, HS7, the discontinued Winchester Action Pistol and older WC630 powders. It is 1.3 times as dense as Bullseye. It works out that if your measure is already adjusted to meter a safe load with Bullseye, you can then dump the Bullseye out of the measure, refill with AutoComp and go! Little Dandy Rotor #0 which drops 2.2 grains of Bullseye standard charge for the .32 ACP, also meters 3 grains of AutoComp, the recommended charge on the Olin website for 958 fps with 71-grain FMJ bullet in the .32 ACP from the 4” SAAMI test barrel at only 14,800 psi. The SAAMI MAP for .32 ACP is 22,500 psi, the Max Average Pressure here being defined as the sample average plus 3 standard deviations. This meant that I had some "wiggle room" IF, (and, admittedly, it's a big "if") the load is VERY uniform, which it turned out to be.

I cautiously loaded 10 rounds each with 31-087T and 31-090B with 3 grains of AutoComp, to check velocity, inspect ejected cases, and see if my Beretta Tomcat blew up! As expected, the soft, solid, flatnosed, cast bullets did not expand, but perforated a 36" stack of water jugs, just like the Buffalo Bore load, and could be heard bouncing off the trees downrange.

The HP version of 31-087T, showed real promise! When hollow-pointed by Erik Ohlen at http://www.hollowpointmold.com it weighs 83 grains in 1:30. Velocity approaches 1000 fps with 3 grains of AutoComp from my M1935 Beretta with 3.4" barrel and 900+ fps from the 2.4" Tomcat, where they expand to .50 caliber and penetrate 24 inches of water jugs, much deeper than factory JHP rounds do if they are fragile enough to expand from a short barrel. (Water penetration is about 1.7 to 1.8 times greater than gelatin, as an approximation.)

Inspection of ejected cartridge cases showed no bulged heads, flattened or backed out primers, evidence of early opening which would indicate significant residual chamber pressure. Case heads which swell and fired brass which won't go back into the shell holder to resize, are clear indicators of excessive pressure in a blowback gun! Velocity of the 87- and 90 grain bullets with 3 grains of AutoComp exceeded that of the Buffalo Bore factory 75-grain loads, and did so with the heavier bullets!

Ammunition ___________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

WW2 Geco Steel Case 77-gr FMJ___907 fps, 14 Sd_________977 fps, 11 Sd - from estate of ETO vet, WW2 Wehrmacht issue.
WW2 WRA Co. 73-grain FMJ_______923 fps, 28 Sd________1001 fps, 15 Sd - from estate of CBI vet, WW2 US Army issue
RWS 73-grain FMJ_______________896 fps, 29 Sd_________981 fps, 16 Sd - old stock 1960s from German police
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ______________848, fps, 32 Sd________917 fps, 11 Sd - current production
Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN_________883, fps, 6 Sd_________997 fps, 7 Sd - current production

Accurate 31-087T LD#7, 5.6 #2400__825 fps,15 Sd_________926 fps, 14 Sd - well proven good load.
Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 3.0 AutoComp__915 fps, 16 Sd_________999 fps, 14 Sd - "Maximum Effort Mousegun"
Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 2.2 Bullseye____786 fps, 11 Sd_________851 fps, 14 Sd - Practice load of Bullseye same measure setting

In handguns of marginal power, reliability of function and fully adequate penetration, not less than 20” of water or approximating 12” of gelatin, are more important than expansion. A flat nose ensures good "crush" characteristics. Getting 24" of water penetration in a bullet of over 80 grains from a .32 ACP, which expands to .50 cal. from a 2.4" barrel is waaaay cool!

There is no substitute for VICTORY!

Attachment 173815Attachment 173816