.45 ACP to .44 Special-Special

[jschance]

Other than the "I did it myself" aspect, what are the benefits of this project over purchasing .44 Russian brass from Starline?

[EtdBob]

Well, my Boss gave me a pile of empty brass he'd come across, simply because I'm the local gun nut and reloader. 9mm, .40 S&W. .45 ACP. None of which I reload.

I remembered this post, and decided to form the .45 ACP into something usable in my .44 magnums.

Now, the only press I've ever owned is the neat little Lyman Acculine, that can be used as a bench mounted unit or configured as a hand held press.



Because of the amount of force needed I had it set up as a hand held press and was using my weight to force the issue. I was using a the anvil from my Lyman ram prime die, and unscrewed the decapper from the sizer die so I could use a wooden 3/8 dowel and hammer to knock the formed case back out of the die.

I shaved a tiny ring of brass from the base of every .45ACP case!

Got a handful of neat little .44 Extra Shorts formed when the press broke. :weepie:

The zinc frame of the press just couldn't take the force needed.

Now I'm in the market for a new single stage press. Gonna miss that Layman, I don't think they are made anymore.

[454PB]

Sorry to hear this. Yes, I use an RCBS Rockchucker for this job, it takes a lot of force to push those .45 ACP cases into a .44 sizer.

I use either Imperial sizing die wax or boot waterproofing as a lube. Mine are done in a steel die for fear of breaking a carbide ring.

[StarMetal]

Sorry to hear this. Yes, I use an RCBS Rockchucker for this job, it takes a lot of force to push those .45 ACP cases into a .44 sizer.

I use either Imperial sizing die wax or boot waterproofing as a lube. Mine are done in a steel die for fear of breaking a carbide ring.

For heavy resizing jobs, such as you are doing, Imperial wax isn't the best stuff. Get some Bullshop Case sizing lube from Bullshop. Tis much better stuff.

Joe

[StarMetal]

45PB, I miked the base height of several .45acp cases, and the center, is at or a few tousanths below the top of the extracter groove. This will allow the base to curl up slightly, as the case is swaged. This, along with the reduced diameter, will add to case length.

Anybody that wonders why I thought this couldn't be done, just try to swage any solid head rimmed case down to the rim. A good example, would be to force a .45-70 case(.505" base dia.) into a 31/64"(.4834") hole drilled in a steel plate. The plate(or washer), could be slipped over the case, and the case placed in the press, where a steel electical box KO slug has been placed on the ram in place of the shell holder, and the ram brought up, the washer being stopped by the top of the press frame, as the case moves up. The spot where the solid head begins, will become very apparent, when the case stops its upward movement. I mention this, as one method(using a shell holder), to reduce case walls before fire forming, if you don't have a lathe, or the proper dies). You just can't swage the solid portion of a case this way.
Morgan

Morgan,

I size down the case and swage down the head of 30-06 class cases (that is .473) to 6.5x54MS which has a head size of about .443 all the way to the rim and I use my RCBS Rockchucker. I have a series of dies I do this with. Yes it's hard as you stated.

Joe

[rockrat]

AKtinman---I remember the same article and tried the same thing with my carbide die. It cracked in about 5 places.

[AKtinman]

Yeah, rockrat, learn by doing!

I remember thinking at the time that the carbide ring might break, but took the chance anyway.

About 1970 I read an article (by George Nonte, I believe) that described using .5 gr of Bullseye in a .38 Special to allow catching a bullet fired into a box of rags or newspapers in order to retrieve the undamaged boolit for slugging purposes. Yep, tried it out and ended up with a boolit stuck in the bore!

Nowadays, I'm a bit more cautious about some of these "good ideas." Hopefully I've gotten a little smarter...

[kir_kenix]

I read this post the other day, and figured I'd give it a try. Well, it IS doable but it does take alot of work. I put a piece of flat iron on my coax "shell holder" and ran a new, lubed .45 acp case up to the rim in my old Hornday die. Ended up having to use a piece of threaded rod to pound the case out of the die.

Tried using a shell holder in a Hornady l-n-l, but ended up crushing all the material down to the shell holder and wrecking the case. This is a pretty cool idea if someone were completely out of .44 brass, but other then that I'm not sure its worth the trouble. I'll keep this idea tucked away in the back of mind, just in case it ever becomes necessary to make some usable brass.

[Trapshooter]

Tried it with my Classic Cast press. The reformed shell came out good but I smashed the shell holder insert in the process. Now shell holders won't slide in. Time for the needle files to open up the slot, or $32 to Lee.

Trapshooter

[EtdBob]

Anyone actually shave a ring of brass off the base of the .45 ACP case as happend with me?

[Trapshooter]

EtdBob

Mine shaved off a ring. I used surplus WCC brass sized in a 45 sizer, then a 44 carbide die with Imperial. I got the ram repaired. so I'm back to being a reloader again.

Trapshooter

[HamGunner]

I have an old Lee Loader set for .44 spl/.44 mag. that I'll bet would work. Might take a large hammer to pound them in and a large one to pound them out, but it might be something I might try sometime when I get bored for something to do.

[454PB]

Let us know how that works for you, HamGunner. I suggest you wear ear and eye protection!

[kawalekm]

Just to let you guys know, this idea has been taken a step further, with the making of .41 shorts from .45ACP brass. On pages 63-66 of the 9th ed. of Handloader's Digest (1981), the author James Cowgill describes the process of sequentially sizing the .45 cases through .45ACP sizer, 44 mag sizer, a .41 bullet seating die, and finally, a .41 mag sizing die!

He tested his cartridges (the 41 Cowgill) in a Smith & Wesson model 57 with 170, 200, and 220 grain jacketed bullets, with velocities of 1370, 880, and 848 fps respectively.
Michael

[RSJR]

I gave the 44 special-special a whirl today.
I ran a 45 acp case (CCI range pick-up)) through my RCBS 45 colt carbide resizer die first. Then, with plenty of sizing lube, I pressed the case into an old 44 mag Lee Loader with a 1/2 ton arbor press. I used a small spacer to get the case to go all the way in. Pressed the case out useing a metal rod and ran it into a Lee 44 mag carbide die as far I could. This left a ridge near the base which I removed with my mini lathe.
Now the acid test, I inserted the case into my 44 mag NEF handi-rifle and it chambered fine, but went past the ejector like it was'nt there.
Oh well, a Ruger Blackhawk in 44 special is on my wish list and this cartridge should work fine in it. I cast some 246 grn RN boolits (Lee mould) from WW today and was wondering if 6 grains of Unique would be OK for this cartridge?
I think .44 auto rim would be a better description of this wildcat than .44 special-special.....
Darn Montana weather...I've got too much time on my hands...
Thanks
Ron

[Reg]

Saw this one and had to try it. Ed was kind enough to supply specific information and a list of pitfalls. Having a 30 hydrolic press made the job a snap.
The plate and machine nut concept is something made up some time ago while making 25-20 Single Shot from .223. The pictures should tell most of the story.
Found it best to use only brass with a perfect mouth. Any dent or flaw will compound itself in the reduction. Started with a 45 ACP FL die and added a step of using a 308 Win FL die to give things a tiny bit of taper and also ran the cases about 2/3 way into the 44 FL die while it was still in the loading press. I think it helped with alignment. A 1/2" fender washer was used as a spacer and seemed to stop things before the rim was pressed into the die. No primer pocket compression was observed. On about one half the cases there was a small burr pushed into the extraction groove area but it was just barely there and barely hanging on and was removed with a safe edge file. After the cases ran in crushed pecan hulls for a couple hours you couldn't see any remains. Cases fit and eject from a SBH and a Model 29. Some modification will be required in the loading dies but I have several partial sets laying around and will just make up a dedicated set for this.
Took the best part of yesterday to come up with 50 cases but I really don't care, beats the heck out of cleaning flower beds !!!
I can see where it might be best to keep these cases far away from regular 45 ACP but other than putting in a box by themselves and marking well I cant imagine a method that will make them stand out. Best to just be careful. Then again it might work out like firing a 30-30 in a 32 Spl. No harm done but you will never hit anything.

[dbosman]

Lyman Acculine,
The zinc frame of the press just couldn't take the force needed.
Now I'm in the market for a new single stage press. Gonna miss that Layman, I don't think they are made anymore.

A lot show up on eBay. Some at reasonable prices.

[alamogunr]

Did you realize you replied to a 5 year old post?

Glad you did so I could find this thread. Very interesting.

[454PB]

Reg, it could be that you're pushing them just a bit too far into the die, because I had no problems with brass flowing into the extractor groove.

Your method looks more civilized than the way I did it, but again, it only has to be done once. After they are formed, they can be reloaded with a standard .44 special/magnum sizing die, and a modified seating/crimping die.

[Old School Big Bore]

My buddy Montana Pistol Hunter and I made a hundred of these about 25-30 years ago BECAUSE we had lever actions. One look at that magazine article and 'hmmmm, more in the magazine'. I'd just traded a Commander for a SBH & had the brass, so we squeezed the ACPs into a steel .44 sizer die in a bench vise, flipped the die around & slipped it into a big socket & pressed the brass out with a rod. Lots of spinning the vise handle but it worked. Then we asked my machinist father-in-law to cut a seat/crimp die down for us (we forgot to tell him the entry needed radiusing - that die still gives me problems today). We put the Lee 120 gr button WC over a smidge of Bullseye and voila le cat sneeze and lots more boolits in the tube. My 29, SBHs and Bulldogs all shot them very well. They made great point-shooting training ammo too. I think MPH still has those cases.
Ed