.38-55 vs .45-70

[charlie b]

Ok, so I have a Win 94 in .30-30

I have wanted to start shooting black powder cartridge.

I have used BP in the .30-30, while it worked was just not very satisfying.

My choices are to have the .30-30 rebored to .38-55 or get a new gun in .45-70 (or in some other caliber, but, .45-70 seems a logical choice due to availability)

Yes, I know I can't have too many guns, and, yes the .30-30 is fun to shoot as is with smokeless.

The gun would be for more informal shooting, deer/pig hunting maybe, but, I'd like to shoot sihloettes and some other longer range matches every now and then (500m would be nice, 300m more realistic).

Pros/cons?

[country gent]

either cartridge will do what you want to do. A 38-55 with appropriate twist barrel for 300-330 grns slugs will get to 500 yds reliably and accuratly. My shooting partner is shooting a 38-55 CSharps high wall with the rcbs 312 grn bullet around 1200 fps ( he uses a smokless duplication loading though). On 500yd rams there is a audible tink and the target wiggles on the chains. Some will depend on the matches available for you to shoot here its swinging targets so a visible wiggle and ding is all thats needed. On standing targets you have to knock them over and a 38-55 may occasionally leave a hit target standing. The 45-70 is the "standard that you see the most of and is very good, recoil is heavier and you use more lead and powder up faster. A well hit target with a 500+ grn bullet alost never stays upright either. The big inbetween cartridge is the 40-65 and does well all around. Theres alot of choices out there and things to consider along with rifles options sights and use considerations. For shillouettes I shoot 40-65 ( mostly) 45-70 (very occassionally) and 45-90 ( when I need tenderized) bullets range from 400 grn in the 40-65 to 550 grns in the 45-90. Look at rifles and see what you like and what calibers are available.

[Paul_R]

I just got a custom 38-55 built on an original #1 Remington receiver. Didn't know much about it other than I wanted something that kicked less than my 45-70's & 45-90. What I'm finding is that there doesn't seem to be much of a standard for bore size, chambers, and even cases. In other words, the perfect caliber for a tinkerer like myself. If you haven't already I suggest you read this article from Star line Brass:

http://www.starlinebrass.com/article...t-38-55-Cases/

[rfd]

the best of all worlds might just be the .40-65 .....

[Chill Wills]

Ok, so I have a Win 94 in .30-30

I have wanted to start shooting black powder cartridge.

I have used BP in the .30-30, while it worked was just not very satisfying.

My choices are to have the .30-30 rebored to .38-55 or get a new gun in .45-70 (or in some other caliber, but, .45-70 seems a logical choice due to availability)

Yes, I know I can't have too many guns, and, yes the .30-30 is fun to shoot as is with smokeless.

The gun would be for more informal shooting, deer/pig hunting maybe, but, I'd like to shoot sihloettes and some other longer range matches every now and then (500m would be nice, 300m more realistic).

Pros/cons?

Much of the replies have been written for Singleshot rifle advice. You have a Winchester 94 - maybe even a carbine.
Maybe leave it 'as is' would be good advice and start new with a singleshot rifle in any of the calibers advised and you will do fine.

[charlie b]

Nope, not a carbine. Full length barrel.

And I don't want a single shot. A new gun would be another lever. Sorry that wasn't clear in the first post.

[Don McDowell]

I would leave the 30-30 as is, and look for a 38-55.

[Chill Wills]

OK.
Charlie, you sound like you are ready for the 45-70. Great lever caliber and will give you the ability to shoot far. If you want to shoot black powder in it, a Marlin is always a good choice to make the cleaning easier. Winchester 1886's are really fine rifles and my first choice but cleaning requires a little more effort.

If it is a 38-55 you want and nothing else will do, they are as good as they ever were. But, I would make a beeline to the 45-70.

In original rifles a good Winchester 1886 - 40-65 can work. A friend has one that shoots well and he likes to hunt with it. I have shot it in the pasture with Black and it will hold accuracy for a lot of rounds uncleaned before accuracy drops off.

[Hogpost]

The 38-55 is a sweet shooter in BP and in smokeless; and in my opinion a bit better than the 30-30 in smokeless; it's the cartridge the '94 was originally built for. '94s in 30-30 are a dime-a-dozen, and rebore/rechamber to 38-55 is a great way to bring an older worn barrel back to life. I had mine done several years ago, and have been delighted with it; have taken 2 California pigs with it in BP, and run many hundreds of rounds through it on the range and out in the boonies blowing up 2 liter water bottles.

A 45-70 lever will probably cost much more than the rebore job, and 45-70 BP recoil on a light gun gets old in a hurry.

Just make sure you know which of the two 38-55 case lengths you'll be chambered for. Mine will take the longer case,
but so far as I know only Star-Line makes the longer brass.

[Bigslug]

Nope, not a carbine. Full length barrel.

And I don't want a single shot. A new gun would be another lever. Sorry that wasn't clear in the first post.

Just be aware that you don't hear the phrase "long-range, precision, lever-action repeater" uttered very often. A tube clamped to the bottom of the barrel containing moving parts and weights that change position with every shot is not conducive to quarter-mile problem solving. It CAN be done, but it is a case of adjusting Tool A to perform in Job B.

[Knarley]

I'm scratichin' my head. A 38-55 boolit is aprox .375. One for a 30-30 is .308. As much as it's gonna cost to "rebore to 38-55" aren't you going to need to re-barrel too?
Check out "Gun broker", they have lever 38-55s galore. I'm sure they have quite a selection of 45-70s also. If not "Gun broker" there are plenty of other sites also.
There is no sense taking the long way around the barn if'n ya don't have to.

Knarley

[Lead Fred]

Be advised, once you get a 45/70, they multiply

Everyone I know that has a 38-55 has benched them, in favor of the 1895 Marlin

My 1949 30WCF is now a safe queen.

[Hogpost]

It's a common change: JES here in Oregon rebored mine a few years ago, they specialize in it. It was under $250, and they still do it for less than $300. No FFL required to ship back-and-forth to a gunsmith.

[MT Chambers]

The 38/55 is a great cartridge and can do sillywet work at 500 m. but only with 330+ weight bullets in a single shot. In a levergun it is an excellent hunting gun within say 125 yds. using 250 gr. flat points, cast of course. For hunting, i consider it better then the 30/30, however in a levergun, you won't be happy with long shot results.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have several JES Reboring jobs turning 30-30 into caliber 38 rifles. The 38-55 you receive from JES will have a .377 groove. Most any mold will work fine. The Lyman 375248 (255 gr PB) will work fine for hunting most any critter using 3F and smokeless up to 1400 fps. With a bit of tweeking you can get to 1500 fps. The Lyman 375449 (265 GC) can get pushed to 1800 fps and will solidly thump any critter you smack it with. You can get custom molds from several excellent makers that will give much better impact on target.
With good sights, an accurate barrel and good ammo your lever action can hit a 10 inch gong at 300 yards. At 500 m you are going to need very good sights, a well adjusted rifle, well assembled ammo and practice to hit a ram target. You can do it if you can see the ram and have your sights properly dialed in. You may have to remove the cartridge tube and hand guard to do this consistently. 500m is asking a 94 to become something it was not built to do... but can if you are willing to pay the price.
Mike inPeru

[charlie b]

Thanks for all the replies. I will have to ponder this a bit and see where I go with it.

I agree with all that the 94 is not going to be a sub-MOA rifle. And I do realize it will take some doing to make it accurate at longer ranges. The same can be said for a lever in .45-70 so this is expected.

For match and range work I also do not mind single loading the cartridges in order to use pointy end bullets. I have done that before with a previous .30-30 and it can work well, depending on throat and bullet.

And, yes, JES is who I had in mind when I considered a rebore.