A paper jacket that stays on

[303Guy]

So I've had this with a light boolit (148gr) with a light charge of shotgun powder. Accuracy was awesome out to about 45 yds. Now this idea simply won't work in pristine bores with sharp rifling but worn bores with rounded rifling is a whole different ball game. My serious loads have been ones I developed to disintegrate the patch in a worn bore and when accuracy dropped off I increased the load to maintain the disintegration.

Well now I'm thinking of going back to the patch that stays on idea. The paper I used initially was ordinary, easy to work with, cheapo printer paper. It's great stuff really but it is weak. I'm wanting this to be a target/plinking boolit so the idea is to keep pressure and hence velocity low to moderate. The patch, boolit and load is something I can develop in my 'test tube' and is therefor something I can do right here at home.

What I think I will be aiming for is a boolit of around 168 gr for I already have and a powder charge of maybe up to 16 gr H4227 or between 5 and 10 gr Clays. I'm thinking of toughening the same ol' printer paper with some agent like white paper or wood glue and see what happens.

The idea behind it to get accuracy at lighter than usual patched boolit loads. Patched boolits are just so much easier to load into unsized cases most of the time and also have a certain 'cool factor'.

Any thoughts/ideas would be appreciated. Better paper or better toughening agent choice? Anyone else tried this?

[Gtek]

Dipped in a melted batch of a to be determined/tested ratio of Beeswax and PJ?

[country gent]

May try a water souluable glue like elmers white glue and dilute to very this consistancy the wet wrap onto bullet. Paul Matthews was using varnish to seal paper jackets from moisture a heavier thiner coat would soak in and maybe accomplish what you want.

[Elkins45]

I have some paper labels with gummed adhesive on the back. I'm going to give those a try one day.

[303Guy]

I have had patches being glued to the boolit from something like melted alox. Beeswax should do it. Thanks.

What is Elmer's soluble glue? I know something called Cascamite which is a white powder that dissolves in water.

Varnish - now there's a thought. Or maybe shellac.

Well, I've been playing around with one candidate but so far have not had a patch stay on too well. One did on the nose but wore through toward the rear. That's OK since it was shot through the bore with emery paste in it. That was a brown paper I found in roll form that seems quite tough.

Another patch that I used PVA craft glue came off split at the lap join.

The rifling may be too sharp on this rifle but I'll keep trying as it is a nice lightweight rifle with a long barrel and old style LE sights. It only bears on the outer lug so only low pressure for it, making the ideal candidate except for the rifling.

Ah. Gummed labels. That's an idea! I have some.

[big bore 99]

Ever try coffee filter paper? I dampen the paper then put it between 2 pieces of glass to iron it out to dry. It's much tougher and wettable. Been having some promising/mixed results.

[country gent]

elmers glue is a white glue for crafts and wood. It washes of with simple soap and water. Thinned down it might imprgnate into the paper making it very tough when dried. SHellac might be a little on the abrasive side. Paper is going to absorb whatever you use so its going to need to be impregnated pretty well I would think. May a light coat of 50-50 alox mineral spirits and wrapped wet then allowed to dry. It would dry to a hard wax like consistancy. Even thined down though might take a day or better to cure out.

[303Guy]

Thanks. It sounds like the same sort of thing as I have. It does toughen the paper.

If shellac is abrasive it might polish the bore which would be good initially. In fact, it might be great for fire-lapping by being able to hold the abrasive in place while chambering.

Coffee filter paper might the thing to try, I'll put it on the list.

[longbow]

Gummed labels has been done successfully by Veral Smith:

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/ask-ver...d-other-paper/

Seems to me I read a more in depth article about it too. A Google search might find some more detail.

I have not tried this, though I did try masking tape with poor results.

I am afraid I am a skeptic on the success of this as any paper jacket that remains attached pretty much has to be in worse shape after the shot than before and any ragged bits are going to affect flight.

Personally I think you would be better off pursuing something more like a sabot where the paper jacket is thicker than normal and split like shotgun wads so it protects the boolit and follows the rifling but discards so not affecting boolit flight.

Thick patches do not seem to work well at high pressures and velocities but for what you are looking for there might be some hope. I know that my Lee Enfield would not shoot well with boolits about 0.002" under bore size even when patched to groove diameter or larger. However, when boolit size was increase to bore size or a bit over things suddenly got better. These were most likely higher velocity loads than you are planning but not hot by any means.

Just my opinion.

Good luck and I hope you are successful.

Longbow

[FredBuddy]

303:

I am by no measure an expert, nor do I have years of experience at paper patching. I do, however fool around with lighter than normal boolits paper patched using a bit of white glue in the water as described in several postings here. I start with a 200 gr SWC that measures .452 and barely is engraved by the rifling of my 45-70. I wrap it in tracing paper or 25% vellum up to .460. When dry, I wipe on JPW. I seat in unsized cases over a light load of Unique, then run them up into the sizing die just to eliminate the flare and snug them up a little, as I like to load a second round in the magazine tube. They work fine at 50 yds, haven't really tried them at 100 yds. The paper flies off at the muzzle like a hand full of confetti, which has been describe here as the desired effect.

The glue isn't intended to keep the paper on the boolit during flight, rather to help the paper shrink onto it as it dries.

I have received comments about the fact that the 45-70 was not designed to stabilize lighter bullets to the same degree, and my other loads confirm this, but it is a fun, no recoil small game load that is lots of fun to shoot.

I have found the same principle to be true in 38/357(not paper patched). These were designed for 158 gr bullets; 110 gr don't seem to be as accurate in my guns.

Bearing surface and other factors seem to be more in play than whether the paper stays on the boolit.

My goal has been to hand my 45-70 to a kid who then can enjoy shooting a monster cartridge with no more recoil than a 22, or shoot a ground hog at close range.


Sorry for the long wind.

[303Guy]

Thanks Fred. Well, the rifle I was playing with yesterday seems determined to cut the patch into ribbons and lose it at the muzzle with light loads (4.4 gr of Clays). If it comes off reliably at low velocity and pressure then that's all I need. I was worried about irregular patch separation.

The barrel that keeps the patch on doesn't have an action (anyone wanting to donate a Martini 303?). I have another candidate that I will be playing with today. That's my rust damaged bore pig gun. It has shot accurately with 158 gr patched boolits with a light load of Clays. I'll be trying the molten beeswax idea.

[GhostHawk]

Might try a dip of water based polyurethane. Cleanup with soap and water, turns the paper into an almost plastic feel.

[303Guy]

Might try a dip of water based polyurethane. Cleanup with soap and water, turns the paper into an almost plastic feel.

Sounds interesting. I'll look it up.

I must say the craft glue I've been trying seems to harden the paper which seems to makes it come off easier, with it being more brittle. I haven't tried tougher tracing paper yet. That stuff has to be glued or it just peels off when it dries.

Found the water based polyurethane online. Thanks.

[Old Coot]

You might try a good yellow carpenters glue. The brand I am thinking of is "Tight Bond" specifically #2 and #3, If they don't cary them in kiwi land any good yellow glue should work.
We talked about using shellac last Spring (?). Remember the Ausie chap who was trying to water proof his patched bullets? Try cutting the shellac 1:1 or 1:3 with alcohol and it should keep the patch on the bullet.
Best of luck.
Brodie