A second coat of Alox post-sizing?

[bullpen7979]

Greetings listers. Trying to cut down a little on the smoke profile some as I'm shooting indoors now.

I am running the Lee 120 RN conventional lube design. They drop about 359 and I'm sizing down to 357. In your opinion, do I need to re-tumble with alox after that sizing operation? Shooting 9mm out of short bbl with 3.5 gn Titegroup. Was going to experiment with Unique but it looked a bit slow for the MP shield bbl.

[duckey]

I retumble after sizing. Never tried shooting any that we're lubed once then resized. I shoot a Sig P229 in .40 cal using bullseye and unique. Have used some homemade lard type lubes but they still are smokey between the two lubes I use. I to would like to cut down on the smoke.

[duckey]

So yes I would relube, the sizing is taking all of your first coat off.

[dudel]

Yep, just follow the instructions. A second coating of Alox is needed after the sizer takes off the first coat that keeps it from galling in the sizer.

The first coat keeps it from leading the sizer, the second coat keeps it from leading the bore.

Don't use a lot of Alox in either the first or second coat, and it will dry faster. Cut it 50/50 with mineral spirits, and it applies easier and dries faster.

[fryboy]

Less is more with lla ,it's the first coat that may or may not be able to skip ,for high pressure or demanding applications two coats after sizing,
There's several things in the smoke,one is slox is going to smoke no matter what,nature of the beast so to speak,different powders have different pressure curves,some powders seem to smoke even with jacketed projectiles, even humidity can factor in on levels of smoke
For me 45/45/10 smoked less ( less alox for one thing ) rooster jacket smoked even less than that. Your mileage may vary
I'd imagine that if you was running a 45 vs the higher pressured 9 you'd see alot less smoke
And again remember less is more you should just barely even be able to tell that they're lubed

[bangerjim]

If you shoot indoors like I do and want to eliminate all the grease smoke, switch to power coating. Check it out under "alt coatings".

And Unique is perhaps the dirtiest smokiest power ever invented, next to 231.

banger

[BCB]

Can't you size them first and then put the Alox on them?...

I use a push thru sometimes and I put a bit of Imperial size lube on the first boolit I am pushing through and then a bit on other boolits as they get tough to push through...

Seems unnecessary to lube then size and then lube again...

Maybe I'm reading the OP wrong?...

Just my thoughts...

Good-luck...BCB

[Jackpine]

You need VERY little lube when you size. You are pushing it thru with less constriction than when firing and at a very low rate of speed. I dilute LLA 4:1 with mineral spirits and apply a VERY light coat before sizing. I probably use less than 10% of what I use for normal lubing, I tend to use on the lower end of the spectrum then.

I agree that the Imperial will work for sizing, or just about any small amount of light lube. I am concerned that mixing lubes, even in small amounts, could effect accuracy, especially at long ranges. I have not tested this idea, but using the light diluted ALOX dries so fast and works so well, I have just left well enough alone.

Jackpine

[bedbugbilly]

If I'm going to size . . and I rarely do now . . . I just toss 'em in a tupperware bowl and put in a very small dab of paste wax, swirl 'em around and put them through the Lee push through sizer. I bumble lube in alox/pastewax. I have sized after tumble lubing and then just loaded 'em. In my 38s it works just fine. There's enough in the lube groove and they work just fine . . . and I never have any leading. YMMV Everybody does it different. I've never double lube any of mine.

[tazman]

I use the Lee push through and do not lube until after I size. I cast for 9mm, 38 special, and 40 S&W and have never had an issue with not lubing before sizing.
That said, I size as soon after casting as I can. Since I water drop as I cast, I need to size as quickly as possible to make the job easier. A hard boolit can be difficult to size.
All my loads smoke as I shoot but it has never been enough to be a problem for me at any range I was using.
None of my loads lead the barrels in my guns.

[bullpen7979]

Guys. First let me say i LOVE THIS FORUM. I belong to a number of them and this one is by far the best and that is appreciated greatly. Tazman, it was always laid out to me that sizing w/o lube would lead the die. From your description, this would not appear to be an issue, so I guess we are good.

As a recent relocation to the north DFW metroplex area, I have again taken up one of the old pasttimes that I have neglected since I have been buried in work here.

I appreciate any of those who might know of the "bullet trap" in plano, Tx/ It's the range I use most. That and the Garland Public shooting range.

[tazman]

Guys. First let me say i LOVE THIS FORUM. I belong to a number of them and this one is by far the best and that is appreciated greatly. Tazman, it was always laid out to me that sizing w/o lube would lead the die. From your description, this would not appear to be an issue, so I guess we are good.

As a recent relocation to the north DFW metroplex area, I have again taken up one of the old pasttimes that I have neglected since I have been buried in work here.

I appreciate any of those who might know of the "bullet trap" in plano, Tx/ It's the range I use most. That and the Garland Public shooting range.

My sizing die has never leaded in any way, shape, or form from sizing unlubed boolits in it. I have sized thousands of them this way and they all continue to come out .358 and the inside of the die is shiny.

[jaysouth]

I spray a light-light coat of WD-40 on the unsized bullets. After sizing, I tumble in Ben's Liquid Lube. Single coat works great up to 800 fps. Double coat higher than than that.

[P Flados]

I have gone to using the Lee push through sizer first thing.

Now, I will admit that my boolits only need to be squeezed down a little (say 0.004" max).

Still, it does not hurt to try. Even if a little lead is "rubbed off" would it really matter?

Just watch what is going on and maybe look at the sizer die ID after several hundred.

As long as there is no noticeable lead build up in the sizer and no appearance of galling on the surface, all is well.

The real reason I started doing this is that my eyes are not so good any more.

I really like doing a good inspection and culling effort, but sharp corners are hard to see on some of my "as cast" water dropped boolits.

It is a whole lot easier when the OD is "wiped clean" by the sizer die.

I think that the improvement in inspection speed and accuracy more than compensate for the "extra work" of sizing some boolits headed for re-melt.

[trixter]

Lube, size then lube again. It is the way I was taught. Works great, never any leading.

[Maximumbob54]

I never thought I had leading in my sizing dies. I used to try different things like WD-40, JPW, and Future for the initial sizing. When I moved to PC I noticed what I thought was PC failure after sizing. Turned out it was lead being slowly wiped free from the die. I did the Chore Boy trick and holy wow did I have a lot of lead build up in pretty much all my push through dies. I have no idea how you get that much build up in the sizer and the bullets still measure out the way they should.

[mdi]

I have always sized and then lubed when I use alox. Lubing first, with alox, then sizing, will leave the bearing surfaces of the bullet nekkid and lead to leading as you don't need to fill the lube groove with alox, just the surface. I have a jar of Mink Oil Boot Dressing on my bench and just get a bit on my fingers and rub the bullet as I pick it up to feed it into the sizer, which is enough to prevent any galling. I've been "dip lubing" with 45-45-10 for several years now, after sizing, 'cause I don't like the looks of alox/lube on the bullet nose, and it's a bit cleaner to handle the bullets and finished ammo.

[Larry Gibson]

Lee's directions state sized bullets should be relubed after sizing. I concur whether they are TL'd or dipped. I do it and have had zero leading problems with straight LLA on TL and regularly grooved bullets following Lee's directions.

Larry Gibson

[fecmech]

I'm not using Lee dies, just run the dry bullets through my star for sizing then tumble lube and shoot. I normally size very shortly after casting and right away if water dropped. I have sprayed my lanolin/alcohol case lube on a bunch of harder bullets to make things easier, then tumble lube.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Alox is gonna smoke, whether you have one coat or two. If you want to eliminate that, you need to find an alternative to Alox. I'd personally suggest a traditional wax based Lube...some have minimal smokiness ...you will still get some smoke from your powder choice as fryboy mentioned.

Bangerjim always brings up PC and while I don't PC myself (and don't want to), It's probably your best option for shooting cast boolits indoors.