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Thread: Triple Seven or Blackhorn?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master

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    Can Triple 7 be used as a BP substitute in a flintlock smoothbore pistol? Saw some today for $35.00 and started wondering. Does it work for flash pan charge too, or would BP be better? Thanks

  2. #42
    Boolit Master AntiqueSledMan's Avatar
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    Hello Bmi48219,

    I don't think it will ignite.
    I used to dry my barrel out by dumping about 10 gr of Goex in and snapping a cap,
    but when I started using Triple-7 I noticed a lot of un-burned powder left in the barrel.
    My brother's Lyman Great Plains percussion doesn't like Triple-7, taking multiple caps to fire.
    But with 4 grains of 4F Goex under the Triple-7, it will fire first attempt every time.
    Maybe if you were to use 4-F primer powder under the charge and in the pan it would work.

    AntiqueSledMan.

  3. #43
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Hmm, rather surprising that nobody has come up with such a product until now. Of course, I'm also surprised at how very few smokeless powder muzzleloaders have been made. Seems quite strange to use a cutting edge inline that can make 500 yard shots but still be tied to BP or subs. There is an article on the Chuck Hawks website explaining how many subs can produce smokeless powder pressures even when used in charges recommended by the manufacturer.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Hmm, rather surprising that nobody has come up with such a product until now. Of course, I'm also surprised at how very few smokeless powder muzzleloaders have been made. Seems quite strange to use a cutting edge inline that can make 500 yard shots but still be tied to BP or subs. There is an article on the Chuck Hawks website explaining how many subs can produce smokeless powder pressures even when used in charges recommended by the manufacturer.
    I’m not sure what you’re saying in the last sentence. “How many subs can produce smokeless powder pressures even when used in charges recommended by the manufacturer”. I owned a Savage ML2 for many years and did a lot of load developement with that gun that was DESIGNED to contain the pressures of SOME smokeless powders. Most in-line muzzle loaders aren’t designed in the breech plug area to contain anything over black powder pressures. I’m not familiar with ANY smokeless powders that can be used safely in muzzle loading rifles that aren’t designed to be used with smokeless. In fact, some of the most common brands of in-lines aren’t safe with heavy charges of black powder subs. Some companies call their guns “magnum rated” simply to imply that you can use three pellets or 120 grains (measured by volume, not weight) of black powder subs. If you Google CVA mid 1990s guns blowing up you can read a lot of articles about people having guns blowing up and there’s some videos showing it happening. Those guns weren’t designed for high black powder pressures and lacked proof testing.

  5. #45
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Here is the article: https://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_pressure.htm It shows that some loads with subs get into the 30k pressure range.

    Here is a link to Hodgdon data:https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploa...anual_2008.pdf

    I don't doubt that a 100 grain charge of T7 that gets close to 2000 fps is well into smokeless powder pressure, I don't see how it couldn't be. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that smokeless powder experimentation in muzzleloaders is something to take lightly. I'm just saying that everything I have read suggests that a quality inline which can handle magnum loads of T7 is almost certainly already operating at the lower end of smokeless powder pressure, and it would be nice if the rifle manufacturers performed testing to find some smokeless loads that are safe in a particular rifle.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Here is the article: https://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_pressure.htm It shows that some loads with subs get into the 30k pressure range.

    Here is a link to Hodgdon data:https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploa...anual_2008.pdf

    I don't doubt that a 100 grain charge of T7 that gets close to 2000 fps is well into smokeless powder pressure, I don't see how it couldn't be. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that smokeless powder experimentation in muzzleloaders is something to take lightly. I'm just saying that everything I have read suggests that a quality inline which can handle magnum loads of T7 is almost certainly already operating at the lower end of smokeless powder pressure, and it would be nice if the rifle manufacturers performed testing to find some smokeless loads that are safe in a particular rifle.
    Your suggestions/ideas are dangerous. You need too understand why in-lines can’t take the pressure safely. If you look at a cross section of a barrel and breech plug interface, you’ll see that the cuts for the threads are the weak point on the whole thing. This is why people keep blowing up in-lines….they simply don’t know or understand what they’re doing. You also don’t understand what pressures the in-lines are running at. They are FAR below any smokeless powder pressures. You’re not offering any facts, just dangerous suggestions. Anyone reading this should do some research before even thinking about this idea. FWIW, Toby Bridges blew up a Savage ML2 playing around with different loads not recommended by Savage.

  7. #47
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    These are just my thoughts, I'm not suggesting that anybody do anything.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    NSB, and do not put a filler wad on top of TRAIL BOSS!

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Bmi48219, yes it can be used in a flinter. I just shot an 80 GR, load of it in my BESS, with no BP booster and not a hesitation at all. jmho.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    has any one tried BLACK HORN or BLACK MZ, in a rocklock with out a booster? just courious?

  11. #51
    Boolit Buddy Gobeyond's Avatar
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    T7 has a little more reach in my 45-70. I have a pound of T7 3fg that I want to use in pistol or rifle. Is there any way? I think it great the OP has found T7 and that it works so well for him. His statements are helping me out. Because I have T7 and need to use it up. It reaches and I hope it will be decent. Black is so finicky. I’m having trouble getting out to 200 yds with 68-70 grains. T7 was right there. Not having any problems with T7, just hope if I treat it right it will treat me right. WWJD

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    Gobeyond. thank you for the reply to my question. it has been a year with no reply from anyone. I also have had A stellar performance with T-7. keep me in the loop. all the best, toot.

  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy Gobeyond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot View Post
    Gobeyond. thank you for the reply to my question. it has been a year with no reply from anyone. I also have had A stellar performance with T-7. keep me in the loop. all the best, toot.
    Thanks little toot for your response. I have a recommendation for T7 3fg in 45-70. Will tried bp duplex to get less drop at 200.
    Read up, be gentle, bp only. Use less T7 2fg so as not to compress. So far I have an eight inch group with T7 2fg on a 12 inch gong at 200, which thrilled me no end! BH 209 might close it up a bit but could only find it for 99.99$ on gunbroker @Reeds g &a.
    I use a lee 459-405- r with my own heavily adjusted soft sticky lube for summer seems to work pretty well lube. Don’t think I can shoot an any bigger. Really glad to hear from you. Jesus Loves You.
    Last edited by Gobeyond; 10-13-2023 at 10:55 PM.

  14. #54
    Boolit Master Castaway's Avatar
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    What advantages are there to T7 or Black Horn over black powder other than being stocked on shelves? Three pounds of black and a hazmat fee come out cheaper than a pound of Black Horn 209.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check