Questions about an Argentine .43 Spanish RRB

[Erebos]

I've recently traded to acquire one of these (it'll arrive in the mail in a couple days... pre '98 antiques FTW), and I am considering having it rebarreled to another cartridge I already load: .445 Super Magnum.

So, I'm trying to establish a few things before this goose chase gets too wild.

1.) What is the maximum safe pressure limit of an Argentine RRB?

2.) Is an Argentine RRB cartridge strong enough to handle my "regular" load for that cartridge? (26.0 grains of H-110 under a 310 grain cast gas checked boolit, large pistol magnum primer, Starline brass) What would the peak pressure of this load be? I have a Mac, so I can't easily use Quickload.

3.) I'd like to use PPB in that cartridge for both my Dan Wesson 7445 and this RRB. Is this feasible?

4.) What gunsmith should I talk to about doing this work, if the concept is both safe and feasible?

[ndnchf]

I don't know the max pressures, but why not enjoy it for what it is? 43 Spanish is a fine cartridge and nearly identical to the famed .44-77. It's easy to load for, dies and brass area readily available. It's 130+ years old. I recommend leaving the old warrior as built, and enjoy it as is.

[Erebos]

If anybody can help me find answers to my questions, that would be much appreciated.

[GhostHawk]

I am no expert, while I love the old rolling blocks I have not bought one yet.

With the possible exception of the later model which where designed for smokeless powder and its pressures. Most of the old Rolling Blocks were built for black powder. Trying to run smokeless in it could result in damage to you, or to a fine old gun.

If it was me I would tread softly.

ndnchf gently pushed you in that direction. The problem is if the chamber/barrel is not up to the pressures you subect it too using smokeless powder, it might take it once, twice, 4 times, 10 times.
But odds are it won't take it forever. It probably won't show high pressure signs on the brass. Or if it does you might miss it.Or it could let go with the next shot.

The question is, is it really worth what you are risking?

[Nobade]

I've recently traded to acquire one of these (it'll arrive in the mail in a couple days... pre '98 antiques FTW), and I am considering having it rebarreled to another cartridge I already load: .445 Super Magnum.

So, I'm trying to establish a few things before this goose chase gets too wild.

1.) What is the maximum safe pressure limit of an Argentine RRB?

2.) Is an Argentine RRB cartridge strong enough to handle my "regular" load for that cartridge? (26.0 grains of H-110 under a 310 grain cast gas checked boolit, large pistol magnum primer, Starline brass) What would the peak pressure of this load be? I have a Mac, so I can't easily use Quickload.

3.) I'd like to use PPB in that cartridge for both my Dan Wesson 7445 and this RRB. Is this feasible?

4.) What gunsmith should I talk to about doing this work, if the concept is both safe and feasible?

Don't do it. It would work fine with 445SM loaded with black powder, but I would never chamber a rifle for a cartridge that would damage it if used with normal loads. That rifle is designed for black powder, and it is well over 100 years old. If a rolling block action fails, it will kill you - unlike a bolt gun that is simply annoying. If you don't want to use it as designed, trade it with someone who will and who has what you want.

-Nobade

[Erebos]

Fair enough. I'll tool up for loading .43 Spanish.

Any tips or tricks? This cartridge should work fine with WC872, right?

[Nobade]

It will work very poorly with WC872. It works beautifully with black powder.

Most of those rifles do not allow a groove diameter bullet to be seated in the case and still chamber. The bullets need to bump to fill the grooves. It is very difficult to get any smokeless powder to do that and still stay within the allowable pressure of the rifle. If you insist on using smokeless powder, Blackhorn 209 is your best bet if you want to end up with anything resembling the standard service load. BH209 will bump bullets, and even though it is more powerful than black if you use less than a full case with cream 'o' wheat on top to take up the extra space you should get good results from it. Bullets are easy, use something around .430" and 375 grains, and paper patch up to whatever is a slip fit in your fired cases - usually around .441" - .442". Once cases are formed, there is no need or reason to use reloading dies on them. Just make things fit right and you'll get good results.

-Nobade

[Erebos]

Thank you. I will research that method and try it.

Now that I actually have the rifle in my hands, it is in far better condition than I thought it would be. I wouldn't dream of rebarrelling this rifle. Might have a tang sight put on it at some point, though.

We shall see.

I might put up some pictures later, if there's any interest.

[ndnchf]

Glad to hear you will enjoy it as-is. We're always glad to see photos!

[Erebos]

I assume there would've been some kind of extension with a handle that screws onto the end of the cleaning rod, to make it long enough to reach all the way through the 36" barrel, and to give the user something to hold. Is that correct? If so, where do I get one? Also, where's a good place to get a bayonet? I figure I might as well get the extra goodies that are "correct" for this rifle, if I can.

[Artful]

No history on your gun but I remember reading that they paired you up in a lot of army's - you combined your cleaning rod with your tent buddies to make one full length - you carried half the tent canvas he carried the other half, kind of thing.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reming...ng_Block_rifle

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Argentina/79Patria.htm

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Singl...ng%20Block.htm

Kaboom of RRB
https://www.msgo.com/threads/remingt...ka-boom.53020/

As long as you keep the loads to BP pressures in the #1 actions you should be fine as long as the guns have been checked and in good shootable condition.

And of course all the posts on this board - googlage
Argentine .43 Spanish RRB site:castboolits.gunloads.com
https://www.google.com/#q=Argentine+...s.gunloads.com

[fouronesix]

Also, where's a good place to get a bayonet? I figure I might as well get the extra goodies that are "correct" for this rifle, if I can.

First they are very nice rifles, especially the ones with good bores and it sounds like yours has a good bore. They do have potential to shoot extremely well. The only loads I'd ever consider in them would be BP equivalent types or what's called "Trapdoor" loads.

About the bayonet. They are hard to find so be prepared for a frustrating search. I finally gave up but may stumble into one some day.

[John Boy]

For starters, the RRB action in 43 Spanish ( 11.15x58R) was a blackpowder rifle. There is no maximum pressure listed in SAAMI. Accordingly, I would not exceed the 45-70 pressure that is 28,000 psi for any reloads

These are 2 reloads that I use in my RRB 43 Spanish that is 90% plus antique condition :
* Lyman 436186 bullet (1:30) - 78gr of any good Fg black powder - no wad or GC
* Lyman 436186 (1:30) - 72gr FFg powder and 5gr of either 4759 or 5744 for a duplex load

The accuracy of the caliber is very good with a good set of eyes. Comparable to the 44/77 Sharps
Fiddling with the metric stock sight, I have put many lead splashes on a 48x82" steel buffalo at 1000yds
IMO - leave the rifle be that it was chambered for - load up some rounds and have a good time!

[Erebos]

99% of my shooting is done at a 100 yard indoor range, because it's the only place to shoot that doesn't require an hour+ drive. For obvious reasons, black powder is not an option.

I'll finally put up some photos tomorrow.