A P14 Rebarreling And Cartridge change Project

[Dthunter]

Hello guys! I have a P14 rifle that I want to put a custom flair to.


I am planning/hoping to put a match quality barrel, medium taper, about 24" long. This barrel will be in .308, and 1:12" Twist rate.


The cartridge I want to chamber it for is 30-30 winchester.


Why? Because .312 diameter bullets are harder to find lately, and I have minimal brass available for the 303 British (3-400 cases).


The .308 diameter has a huge variety of bullets available, and I have well over 1500 cases available for the 30-30 winchester.




Here are my comparisons/thoughts:




A) The magazine for the 303 is a very close match for the taper of the 30-30 Winchester. The shoulder diameters of both the 30-30 Winchester, and the 303 British are both .401". The cases are obviously shorter with the 30-30 winchester, but fit the P14's floor plate taper perfectly. No modifications required there. And no feeding issues should arrise.


B) Rim thickness is "SUPPOSED" to be 0.084" for the 303 British, and 0.063" for the 30-30 Winchester. Upon ACTUAL measuring of about 20 cases of each caliber (303British & 30-30 Winchester) There was only 0.002" difference or less.


C) Both are rimmed cases, with the 30-30 Winchester rim being 0.034" narrower (30-30 Win. were 0.500" in diameter), and the 303 British rims were at 0.530" diameter.


I function tested 10, cases from the 30-30 winchester (With only a 165grain sierra btsp seated in an unprimed case, and seated to the bottom of the neck). They fed and ejected without a hitch when cycled at a steady firm rate.


The only failures that occurred were when the bolt was pulled back gently/slowly. The case would just come 1/2 way out of the chamber and sit there. I am thinking this is due to the chamber being much larger in the P14 than a 30-30 winchester case, and the case just sits down at the bottom of the 303 british chamber, and slides off the extractor rail when pulled slowly rearward.


Also, if I do chamber this new barrel to 30-30 Winchester, What reamer dimensions should I go with to best suit shooting a 170 grain cast boolet like the Lyman 311041?



So this is my project idea. Am I missing anything obvious that will make this project more difficult than I anticipate? Thanks for your time!

[JeffinNZ]

Do yourself a favour and chamber it to .30/40 Krag. No changes needed.

[Dthunter]

I don't have a single 30-40 Krag cartridge case. I haven't even seen one in 20 years around here. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[LAGS]

The Hot Ticket for the P-14 action is to rebarrel it in 7.62x54R.
It was first done in Pakistan in the mid '80's by Col.Jawad Umar of the Pakistani Army using a chrome lined Russian Machine gun barrel.
You can get a .310 .311 or .312 barrel blank from McGowen Barrels and have it threaded for the P-14.
The Bolt does not need to be changed, and the rifle is as accurate as can be out to 800 yards or more.
The Rifle Col.Umar devoleped is called a " Dangar "rifle, which means Amimalistic.
I have spoken to Col. Umar several years ago, and last I heard he was designing a new .308 Nato load for POF in Pakistan.
The stronger action of the P-14 and a heavier Barrel allows you to get the most out of the 7.62x54R round .
I want to build one of these rifles myself, but havent been able to find a good action to use.
Most actions in good condition , I wouldnt want to butcher up.
And a lot of the others came off Drill Rifles that were sometimes Welded at the action to the barrel or the bolt ground when they cut off the firing pin.
The P-14 also makes a good 300 Win Mag with little bolt modification.

If you bore is good on the barrel you have, I bet it could be set back and rechambered ti the 7.62x54R with no problem.
I say setting back only because the .303 uses a longer case.

[bruce drake]

Interesting thought regarding the 7.62x54R as the rim for the Russian case is .567" while the original 303 Brit case has a .540 rim diameter.

Myself, I'd look for a new 303 Brit barrel myself but if you already have a .308 barrel waiting to be threaded and chambered, I'd consider the 30-40Krag as my preferred cartridge despite the action being strong enough to shoot the Russian cartridge.

Nothing says you can't chamber the new barrel with a 30-40Krag Improved which would put you right into 308 Winchester power levels with jacketed bullets while also giving you a chambering with a minimal body tapered cartridge.

Bruce

[onceabull]

If I had that many 30/30 cases and NO 30/40 Krags. I might go for a 30/30 Ackley Imp. rebarrel,or cutoff amd rechamber.. I doubt if many 303 Br.originals are so large in boresize that a 0.312 boolit wouldn't do the job, and a rechamber job with the barrel off a rifle shouldn't cost much,if any,more than the standard 30/30.. Use the standard 30/30 cases until you have enough fireformed to load up to 30/30 AI potential.... Onceabull

[bruce drake]

you can convert 303 Brit to 30-40Krag brass.

[Char-Gar]

I think your idea of barreling a P14 to 30-30 with a 1-12 twist is a good notion. The 30-30 round is a cast bullet dream. It has about ideal powder capacity and the long neck is good for grabbing cast bullets.

I would not use an AI form of 30-30 for that shortens the necks and if it is velocity with jacketed bullet you are after, there are larger cases available.

The Krag round (30-40) would also be a very good idea.

[John Allen]

If the barrel is decent. I can use one. let me know.

[MaLar]

You could fit any of the short magnums to your P14.
I think the 30-30 would not fit your bolt face well enough to have 100 percent extraction.
You could try and locate a Model 1917 bolt and open it to fit the 30 WCF.
You could even swap the extractor between the two.

[kiwi]

A dude I use to shoot with years ago did what you want to do his P14 barrel was toast he obtained a secondhand .308 1 in 13" match barrel had it set back and chambered in 30/30 for range use he loaded military FMJ's and hunting 170 RN 30/30 projectiles he killed a pile of deer and pigs with it,
I have 2 .308 13" twist barrels they shoot cast bullets real well from sub sonic to 2100fps a 30/30 should be great for boolits they can get factory velocities with cast
the new barrel will last forever with cast boolits,
Cheers
Robert.

[rockrat]

I picked up a rifle years ago that was a P14 converted to 38-55 and single shot. Almost a full bull barrel and a thumbhole stock.
Stock trigger, and a cheap scope, but man, will that thing shoot. I think it has a Shilen barrel on it.

I can shoot a 7" gong @500 yds all day, as long as the wind isn't blowing, with a 310gr BRP boolit. Our 500 yd targets are back in a kind of a draw and with the hills, the wind turbulence can be brutal

[Dthunter]

I went to my gunsmith friends place yesterday, and we went through the project in detail.

he has all sorts of parts for p14-P17's. We took the extractor and bolt collar from a P17 and fitted it onto the bolt. The extractor fit much better than the original.

all we have to do is grind the extractor to the proper dimensions for the barrel groove and to facilitate smooth feeding.

I will also switch the bolt to cock on opening.

The rifles my friend has modified look real nice and stream lined!

For the time bieng, the rifle will stay as a 303 British.

When my barrel arrives, then the fun starts! Lol!


My project isnt about needing/wanting more power. I have other rifles for that. Its about making a rifle that is on a magazine fed platform, that will feed and shoot both Cast and jacketed well.


the 30-30 is a well balanced cartridge design for cast boolet shooting. As stated in an above post, the long neck lends itsself to support and hold a cast boolet very well. The powder capacity is near ideal as well. This will be a fun, and economical rifle to shoot!

[Ben]

Let the cartridge head space on the datum line of the cartridge case ( NOT THE RIM ). Then, you'll have zero problems.

Ben

[Dthunter]

Let the cartridge head space on the datum line of the cartridge case ( NOT THE RIM ). Then, you'll have zero problems.

Ben

absolutely Ben! Thats very important to maintain god case life and accuracy!

[Larry Gibson]

I say go for it. If it doesn't work out in 30-30 it can easily be rechambered to 30-40, .303 or 7.62x54R (for use with .308 bullets).

Only real suggestion I have is if you intend to use it with cast bullets you might consider a 13 or, better yet, a 14" twist. The 14" twist will stabilize cast bullets up through the length of the RCBS 30-80-FN and you can push velocities upwards of 2500 - 2600 fps with excellent accuracy. If you want to use a heavier or longer bullet the 13" twist will stabilize the 311299 at 1300+ fps an you should be able to push velocities upwards of 2400+ fps.

Also since your paying the same price for such a quality barrel I'd suggest opting for a 26" length. You can always shorten it if it proves too long.

Larry Gibson

[LAGS]

The nice thing about a Rimmed Cartridge is,
If you set up the rifle to headspace on the case head, and no matter what the shoulder dimension is, if you neck size the cases only after they are fired in that chamber, then you will be guaranteed TWO datum points to support th cartridge in the chamber.
You can't ask for more when it comes to accuracy.

[leebuilder]

Nice project. P14 actions are a dime a dozen here at times. I would go with the 30-30 loading like you wanted, good for cast and easier to get cases and being a bolt action you can use all types of 308 boolits. The only problems i have encountered modifying P14s was the hardness of the breech. I rebarreled one with a new 303 barrel, turned out real nice and very accurate. Boyds makes fine stocks for them too.
Any questions please ask
be well

[Dthunter]

I went to my gunsmith friends place yesterday, and we went through the project in detail.

he has all sorts of parts for p14-P17's. We took the extractor and bolt collar from a P17 and fitted it onto the bolt. The extractor fit much better than the original.

all we have to do is grind the extractor to the proper dimensions for the barrel groove and to facilitate smooth feeding.

I will also switch the bolt to cock on opening.

The rifles my friend has modified look real nice and stream lined!

For the time bieng, the rifle will stay as a 303 British.

When my barrel arrives, then the fun starts! Lol!


My project isnt about needing/wanting more power. I have other rifles for that. Its about making a rifle that is on a magazine fed platform, that will feed and shoot both Cast and jacketed well.


the 30-30 is a well balanced cartridge design for cast boolet shooting. As stated in an above post, the long neck lends itsself to support and hold a cast boolet very well. The powder capacity is near ideal as well. This will be a fun, and economical rifle to shoot!

[Dthunter]

The nice thing about a Rimmed Cartridge is,
If you set up the rifle to headspace on the case head, and no matter what the shoulder dimension is, if you neck size the cases only after they are fired in that chamber, then you will be guaranteed TWO datum points to support th cartridge in the chamber.
You can't ask for more when it comes to accuracy.

I couldn't agree more! This is exactly my intention.