Does the PC negate the need for a GC...?

[Wardo1974]

I would like to politely disagree with posters suggesting the PC simply replaces grease, and would you use grease only, etc.

I use PURE LEAD boolits that I powdercoated. I originally got these for paper patching until I found out about PC.

My .38-55 barrel looks cleaner now than when I began using PC. It shines. This with 32 grains of 3031 behind a 255 grain pure lead boolit. I can make 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards with it - fine accuracy for a 100-year-old Winchester with a peep sight.

Never a single trace of leading.

Ditto my .45-70. 400 grain pure lead boolits, coated, exit a clean bore and group well.

I cannot speak for above 1800 fps I suppose, but in my experience, up to this speed with PC, neither of my rifles needed any checks.

[popper]

Larger bores do better, fps is from total force, not psi - more fps at lower psi in larger bores. I'm pushing a PB near 1800 in BO but the alloy has to be right. I did keep the one I shot @ ~ 2700 from 308 on paper - BHN was ~ 35, no GC. Unless you shoot a lot, GC cost savings vs reliability doesn't make much sense.

[Motor]

The discussion in the last 2 posts is what makes this hobby so interesting and fun. We are on the leading edge of this "new" technology and experimenting to see what works is part of the fun.

The fact that you can personally taylor just about any combination of alloy and coating or gas check is the greatest thing.

I don't doubt I could get good results without the gas check on my 30cal rifle ammo but the alloy would have to be harder than what I want to hunt deer with. So I cast softer and use a gas check.

In larger bores it seems pretty much a done deal that expantion is not too important with a good metplat. Plus it's becoming more evident as people report in that the larger bores are benefiting from PC in such a way that people are having good results with softer alloys.

Having too many choices is not always a bad thing. Explaining all of them to someone is impossible.

Motor

[popper]

I don't doubt I could get good results without the gas check on my 30cal rifle ammo but the alloy would have to be harder than what I want to hunt deer with. So I cast softer and use a gas check.

Bingo! Reliable (accurate) for the desired results. Test it in your gun and see if it works is the only answer.
I've cleaned the bore of MINOR leading with cu GC, most of my shooting is testing so if accuracy goes away, a couple GOOD GC loads cleans it up.

[pls1911]

My two cents worth based on my experience... my successes and my failures.
My normal lead rifle loads PC'd and gas checked have never had any leading problems...but never had any issues with standard lube or liquid lubes either.
As good as PC is, it does not negate time tested guidelines for cast bullet success:
1. Fit to bore (sized .001 or .002 over bore size)
2. Appropriate hardness/alloy for application
3. Decent lube
4. Moderate velocity and moderate pressure
5. Gas check for rifle cartridges and high pressure pistol rounds
6. Consult reliable reference materials for moderate loads (Lyman cast bullet handbooks are good)
Follow the rules and you'll be successful without worries about leading. Life is really that easy.
Skirt the rules and you may get away with it in varying degrees, but be prepared for painful cleaning lessons.