50-70 Express loads?

[bruce drake]

I recently acquired a 50-70 Trapdoor barreled action and parts (minus stock which is now on order) and I'm starting the education regarding blackpowder cartridges and I was wondering if anyone has ever used LEE's 250gr R.E.A.L. muzzleloader bullet in the cartridges as a form of 50-70 Express loading. I'm not quite ready to start casting 450-500gr bullets when I know a 250gr bullet will knock a deer down with authority as well as put big holes in the paper target.

Anyone have decent loads for this size/weight bullet?

Bruce

[dtknowles]

I recently acquired a 50-70 Trapdoor barreled action and parts (minus stock which is now on order) and I'm starting the education regarding blackpowder cartridges and I was wondering if anyone has ever used LEE's 250gr R.E.A.L. muzzleloader bullet in the cartridges as a form of 50-70 Express loading. I'm not quite ready to start casting 450-500gr bullets when I know a 250gr bullet will knock a deer down with authority as well as put big holes in the paper target.

Anyone have decent loads for this size/weight bullet?

Bruce

I used a measured amount of Pyrodex RS (don't remember the measure size probably 65) a card wad and the REAL with soft lube from a tube I have. Mine is not really a 50-70 but a Swedish RB but I use 50-70 brass with the rims turned.

Tim

[bruce drake]

Thank you! That's a good start on the data! Any chrono work done on the load and the lighter bullet?

[dtknowles]

Thank you! That's a good start on the data! Any chrono work done on the load and the lighter bullet?

I will check and see. If not it would be a good reason to take the RB to the range.

Tim

[varsity07840]

I recently acquired a 50-70 Trapdoor barreled action and parts (minus stock which is now on order) and I'm starting the education regarding blackpowder cartridges and I was wondering if anyone has ever used LEE's 250gr R.E.A.L. muzzleloader bullet in the cartridges as a form of 50-70 Express loading. I'm not quite ready to start casting 450-500gr bullets when I know a 250gr bullet will knock a deer down with authority as well as put big holes in the paper target.

Anyone have decent loads for this size/weight bullet?

Bruce

I've never tried a REAL bullet in my .50-70, but LEE claims they're .517 in diameter which is big enough for a TD which usually run around .515 groove. I use a .515 in mine. I don't think that the
profile of the top band of the REAL bullet lends itself to loading in a cartridge case especially if you
crimp and the OAL will be pretty short even when compared to a round loaded with the 450 gr government bullet. Personally I'd rather use that bullet given the better penetration and I'd be concerned about that light bullet breaking up. Just my opinion.

Duane

[bruce drake]

Considering that the REAL bullet doesn't break apart when it hits a deer after being shot from a muzzleloader at the relatively same velocity I expect to shoot it from the 50-70 (1200fps), I'm not concerned about that issue. Punching Paper - its 200gr less lead per cartridge to shoot into the retaining wall of the target butt.
Now you do bring up a good point regarding the proper crimping of the cartridge case around the bullet. I do know that the 145gr Lyman button collar mold for the 45-70 looks almost like a wadcutter with that very short bullet. This would be for 50-100 yard shooting mostly as it would used for short range use only so I'm not trying to make a benchrest shooter out of it. And if I ever get to shooting this antique in Blackpowder Matches, I would use the heavier bullets to allow for better regulating the loads with the original sights.

Bruce

[Mk42gunner]

Bruce, Since it sounds like you already have the REAL bullets; when you get around to getting cases, make up a dummy to see how it looks and if it will chamber freely. I don't think crimping will be much of an issue, you are planning to use it in a single shot so there won't be any magazine spring or feeding problems.

I do see your point about saving lead while paper punching and if it shoots okay, I see no problems with whacking Bambi's relatives with it either.

Robert

[dubber123]

Bruce, keep your eyes peeled for a Shiloh stamped mold that casts a 390 grain wadcutter. It's an inexpensive looking aluminum single cavity mold. I have one, and it shoots inside an inch at 50 yards from my short barreled Contender pistol in 50-70. I think mine casts around .515"

[flint45]

In my .50-70 [rolling block] Idon't crimp when using blackpowder Idon't size cases ether just slip fit on top of wad boolit just touching rifling best acc. for me have fun and good luck with project.

[rr2241tx]

I'd just pour enough 1F in the case to leave room for a card wad and set that REAL bullet barely in the case with Lubriplate in the grooves then mash it into the chamber. Should do just fine.

[dragonrider]

Bruce I went to the Mountain Molds site and use the program for a boolit in 50 cal. It would not let me make a boolit less than 350 grains. Nice boolit though, plain base, two lube grooves 70% meplat.

I tried to copy and paste but no luck.

[bruce drake]

hmmm Off to Mountain Molds!

[missionary5155]

Greetings Bruce
Trapdoors are good old rifles. It would do you good to discover the real groove diameter of that beast as some can be rather fat diameter.
I shoot a 345 grainer cast of 40-1 in my 50-70's with BP. These drop from a 515139 mold I lapped to .516 for soft lead. That roller is at .517+ groove. Hardly no recoil and would do in any corn cruncher it ever thwapped. I also use the same bullet in a 50-95. Really smacks into whatever it gets aimed at. Expands always out to 300 yards.
The better boolit in my opinion for a trapdoor and longer range is the 515141. My mold drops range scrap about .515 and 465 grains but shoots well with no lapping on that mold. I recon it is heavy enough to get a better bump in the base with BP.
Never resize cases. Always load the case in the chamber orientated the same. I put the #50 (50-70) at 12 oclock. Leave the boolit a shade long so it compresses the BP a hair more on loading. I shoot off cross sticks. My little 150 pound body does not need any more bench busting. With practice you can shoot off cross sticks as nearly as well a bench. Then when hunting comes carry cross sticks and your are set for any longish shot.
I use my own lube of 45% olive oil and 55% beeswax. On hot dry days I smear more on the cast nose before chambering. Run a spit patch down the bore every 10 rounds unless the chambering gets tough then a bent "bottle brush" gets run in damp every 5 rounds.
I use 3F. Had used 2F for years. My Trapper is in good shape. 3F burns cleaner. I start with a wad stack reducing the stack until a good rounded group with 7 rounds about 3 inches shows at 100 yards. Repeat that load with 7 rounds. If it stays solid I will add 1 grain per 7 rounds until it opens. Then back down to the best and reshoot with 10 rounds. If I can hit a 6 inch gong at 200 I am happy with the load.
May play with it some more but the river bottoms I hunt do not let me see anything past 70yards.
Well you are in for a lot of fun.
Mike in Peru

[bruce drake]

Thank you Mike! I'm waiting on a lock screw and a trigger sear spring to have the rebuild ready to go with a sporter. It has a 27" barrel and it has had the front sight replaced at one point (you can see the solder joint in the sandblasted exterior of the rifle's barrel. Dragonrider from this forum had taken it apart in the past and blasted all the exterior rust and cleaned up any heavy pitting as well. The barrel looks pretty good but to be honest I have even punched the bore yet to see how well it cleans up with my ATF/10W30/Hoppes mix.
I already had Triple 7 on the shelf for my 50 cal muzzleloader but just bought a pound of Pyrodex Rifle powder for the 50-70. I like the idea of using the 200gr-300gr to keep the fps in the 14-1500 range at the minimal and my should recoil to be manageable as well. I'll probably pickup the actual mold and dies to start building test loads once I repair the front lock screw and the sear spring.
After I get the proof that its a good shooter, I will probably pay my local gunsmith to have the entire rifle either re-blued or re-parkerized to protect the metal as well as placing a marker as to its "bonafides" regarding its use.

Bruce