No Love? - HBWC in 44 cal?

[ProfGAB101]

In 38spl. the Hollow base wad cutter is legendary for its superb accuracy with minimal recoil. How is it then that the HBWC is such a rare find in 44spl or 44mag target loads?

This struck me as odd and inspired me to add the 44 HBWC swage die set to my long term "to do" list.

What say the hive mind? Is this a waste of time or can I work up "kitten" loads which are pure ***** cats for training noobs with big revolvers. I'm thinking maybe 170gr. at 700fps.

[midnight]

Yeah, I'll say go for it but I always say that when I get some crazy idea. In reality, I think a reasonably soft lead bullet would bump up just as well as a hollow base in the 44 at 700 fps.

Bob

[uncle dino]

If you have existing 44 set just add hollow base punch. Would be inexpensive way to try it.

[Hickory]

Full wadcutter boolits will shoot their best out to about 25 yds., the little nipple or dimple as some call it will extend the accurate range to almost 50 yds.
For anything but shooting paper and very close up hunting, there is not much use or benefit of owning/shooting them.

[JRPVT]

Sometimes it's just fun to try something. Considering the uses you've mentioned, I'm all for it. If it works for you, great, if not, you learned a few things. Dave

[Whiterabbit]

if it works for you, great. In my experience, it has not been valuable to have reduced handgun loads for training. It's valuable to have them so I can hand the BFR to kids to shoot and they get to load a giant cartridge into a giant gun and have something that recoils less than a cowboy 45 colt for a 5 round novelty cylinder. But for "training", IMO there is nothing to do but go to what the gun is good for. If that is full power in a 44 mag, I find it a disservice to go light which ends up training muscle memory for something that isn't reality later.

That's why the novelty rounds are nice. the folks that shoot them will NEVER "train" for the full power stuff. it's just a novelty. Nothing but smiles all around. And occasionally a foreign national who will never get to own a gun who wants to try their hand at tatooing their forehead with the front sight. I can't fault them at all for that.

Training off the bat with full power builds muscle memory for what reality is. The danger is simply that flinch development has to be carefully considered at all times (but that's kind of what we all do anyways with the big stuff, right?)

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Now, if you are talking about a one-load, one-gun thing with a 44 special and want to go for broke for low power since we can all imagine how effective a wadcutter can be in a 44 caliber size, AND use that for training, I am all for it. The training is for the purpose of the gun. Ditto by the way, if you plan to do the same with a 44 mag and simply use the case because it's more readily available than the special case/gun. I just don't agree with the idea of training on weak cartridges in the same gun I plan on ramping power in..

It hasn;t worked for me, anyways. My perspective.

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I voted "Nay." I think 'waste of free time' is a little harsh, not quite accurate, but still nay. (If I had a 44 special blackhawk I would absolutely do it)

[rintinglen]

I so completely disagree with the White Rabbit that I scarcely Know where to begin.
I absolutely and totally believe in the "start light and increase weights progressively" line of thought. For learning to shoot a magnum revolver, starting low and gradually upping the ante every session or two is a lot better than waltzing out to the range with a bunch of Walmart Whitebox Magnums and learning how to flinch, close your eyes, and miss. Learning trigger control, grip and sighting is best accomplished without a lot of recoil.
Even when you get to the top, a steady afternoon of full-bore loads is a good way to induce a flinch. A couple boxes of full on 44 mags is uncomfortable for me at this stage of my life, where as a like number of 44 special wadcutters just wets my appetite. When I carried a .357, my practice sessions were usually three or four boxes of 38's followed by 3 or 4 cylinders of magnums.

[Whiterabbit]

I so completely disagree with the White Rabbit that I scarcely Know where to begin.
I absolutely and totally believe in the "start light and increase weights progressively" line of thought. For learning to shoot a magnum revolver, starting low and gradually upping the ante every session or two is a lot better than waltzing out to the range ...and learning how to flinch, close your eyes, and miss.

If that works for you, great. It's certainly the conventional wisdom written across the internet. Didn't work for me. All that taught me was to "expect trailboss" and then I get the muzzle flash and recoil from H110 and slipped grip. THAT trained me to flinch better than anything else! What worked, was dumping any load that wasn't intended (only intended load was medium-high, no trailboss (light), H4227 (medium), or H110(high)) and shooting only those. Lots, and lots of them. What that did, was train my mind and muscles to expect exactly what I got during firing. No surprises, other than the exact moment the hammer falls of course. If flinch started it was noticed right away and corrected right away. Rather than being scary by shooting 50 trailboss loads then getting pummeled by H110 loads. Or worse, the idea of randomly combining TB and H110 in the same cylinder. Talk about a recipe for creating fear!

Anyways, if shooting a bunch of special or cowboy or Trailboss loads in a gun then following it up with max pressure rock-em sock-em loads works for you, I'm happy! Miserable failure for me.

[gunauthor]

I really like wadcutters and shoot them several times a week. I addition to 38 caliber, I also have one of Lee's 208 grain 44 caliber wadcutter molds and exercise it frequently. Mostly just for poking holes in paper, but also suited for close range ground squirrel "control".

[ProfGAB101]

I have a VERY old LEE 240 RNL 6 cav mold that I use for making up my plinking rounds. Those slugs sitting on 8gr. Unique were a comfortable yet great target load. I used to set up those throw away aluminum pie pans from store bought pies and use those as "reflective" targets at 400yrds. I could bag those 5/6 times all day long with my single action 7 3/8" barrel 44mag. I also shot full power 240gr. JSP and JHP and within 100 yards both shot to the same minute of soda can point of impact.

I bought that 44mag from a good friend and years later when he was transferred to where he had to work in bear country, and after being held in siege and had to have game wardens come and scare off a bear he ask to buy it back.

I don't tend to sell my personal guns, but when its the former owner pleading to buy it back I make exceptions.

So - at the moment my only 44 is a Desert Eagle XIX, but I have my eyes pealed for a good revolver and lever action.

Teaching new shooters is also a mind game. My sister loves a 357 snubby and will shoot +p and any other full power mag loads with it. She shoots almost all my handguns some better than I do. Yet she will not shoot any rifle other than a 22LR. (She loves 10/22's) But she won't touch any other shoulder fired weapon. So for some new shooters you have to work within the comfort zone and work to expand that zone as they get more range time under the belt.

A girl bought a Stainless PPK/s and wanted me to teach her to use it - I had her start out using a full sized Sig P226 with some light loads till she got in the habit of using the proper sight picture. After 150 rounds I told her she should try it with her gun, but not to be surprised when it kicked harder than my "big" gun.

Anyway - no I don't have a 44 swage die set yet - and if I blow it - I'll have a 45 core swage die...

[DukeInFlorida]

Mihec made a series of Nose Pour type HBWC in 38 special, 41 mag, 44 magnum, and 45, about two years ago. .

I bought the 38 special and 44 mag versions, and they cast wonderfully. They also shoot well.
Don't know that I would ever feel the need for a jacketed version, since most commercial bullets of this type are cast.

Here's a link for that group buy:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-44-amp-45-Cal



He may still have some in stock, not sure.

[country gent]

Hollow bases are great for sealing the bore and getting good engagment in the rifling. But to thin a skirt or to hot a load and they flare or pull off in the barrel, So be carefull. I have seen 148 grn hbwc over 2.6 grns of bullseye perfom past 50yds very well. This is a very light bullseye load. I would shoot for 190-200 grns a dimple on the front and a fairly heavy skirt. If they dont work you can always load them backwards for a super hollow point load LOL. Maybe shoot for 650-700 fps with them for a light target load for punching paper and cans, although a bullet in that wieght at that velocity wouldnt be a bad small game to medium sized game hunting load.