First time powder coating

[thumbs]

Ok. I'll try a few tomorrow and see what happens. Should be interesting. If it will stay on and size right that would be great.
thanks

[Schrag4]

thumbs, maybe I misread your last post, but it seems like you're asking if you lube, size, PC, then size. If you're going to PC them, there's no reason to lube them, it would actually prevent the PC from sticking. Similarly, if you're going to lube them, there's no reason to PC them. Lube and PC both just act as a barrier between the barrel and the lead, at least that's my understanding. If I mistook what you meant then nevermind.

I agree you should just try to PC. Read the sticky and any other PC related posts. It's not hard, a little trial and error and you'll find what works for you in short order. It's really cheap to get into, too. I bought a couple pounds of HF red for $6 each, I'm guessing that will last at least several years. The most expensive thing I had to buy was a $20 new toaster oven because the thrift shop didn't have any used ones. Some day I might upgrade the powder and the oven, I was just wanting to try it out without spending much.

[shoot-n-lead]

shraq4, is correct. No lubing and then pc'ing...pc IS the lube and is all that is needed.

[thumbs]

No no. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I am in the process of learning this stuff. I am also trying a couple of different things including PC. I am trying to take from the exp of you guys. Maybe some of my thoughts are running together.

This is want I was asking in reference to PC according what I have read here. At least the way I interpreted it.

Cast the bullets and size the bullets. Then PC the bullets then size again. Lubing is another process unrelated to PC.

My though, I understand I overthink things LOL, was if I sized the bullets to .358 then PC the bullets then go back and size them again to .358 that I would take the PC off the sides of the bullets exposing the lead to the bore. Apparently that will not be the case. My sizer should be in tomorrow so I will give it a try. Thanks for trying to keep me honest though. LOL

[shoot-n-lead]

No no. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I am in the process of learning this stuff. I am also trying a couple of different things including PC. I am trying to take from the exp of you guys. Maybe some of my thoughts are running together.

This is want I was asking in reference to PC according what I have read here. At least the way I interpreted it.

Cast the bullets and size the bullets. Then PC the bullets then size again. Lubing is another process unrelated to PC.

My though, I understand I overthink things LOL, was if I sized the bullets to .358 then PC the bullets then go back and size them again to .358 that I would take the PC off the sides of the bullets exposing the lead to the bore. Apparently that will not be the case. My sizer should be in tomorrow so I will give it a try. Thanks for trying to keep me honest though. LOL

I only size my bullets once...after pc...although, I know that some size before and after pc...I just found that it was not necessary for me.

[bangerjim]

If you are using the same dies to lube with grease and then switch to PC.......you are probably getting a greasy carry-over which will really mess up your PC coat!.

I would recommend using different Lee dies for PC'ing. Or totally clean & scrub them out in laq thinner when going from grease to PC. Grease is NOT your friend.


Sounds like you have never done this B4. Time and experience ARE your friends.

banger

[Dvedw]

Yes this is a good point. I bought a new push through die for the pre-pc sizing to .356 for this reason. That die has only been used with no lube to size down about 2-3 thousands. No leading of the die evident after 500 boolits. Hoppes 9, Chore boy and/or a bronze brush followed by a degreaser will clean the die if it ever does get leading...

It also helps to pre size in my opinion because this compresses/shaves the outer layer of lead on the driving bands, exposing clean lead for the powder coat to adhere to. I handle the boolits with bare hands prior to the first sizing which may add oils that will keep the pc from coating properly. Using the lee push through die and the included boolit catch container I can dump them into the dry pc without touching post sizing.

For 357 mag I presize to .356 then shake pc then gc/size to .358..

[Beagle333]

Sizing should not remove your PC. If it is coming off..... there are other issues that need to be solved. You really shouldn't be able to tell if they have been sized or not, just by looking at them.

[Dvedw]

If he pre sizes to .358 then powder coats then sizes to .358 again I've seen it take off some of the powder coat and expose the underlying lead on the bands. I've seen this even though I believe the powder coat was adhering properly.

This is why I pre size to .356 and post to .358. Pre sizeing to .357 would probably be fine too. I went with .356 to allow a 2 thousands layer of powder coat for engagement of the lands without getting into the underlying boolit. Downrange recovery of the boolits shows this to be working as intended...

[Beagle333]

Lee push-thru sizers don't size by scraping off the excess. It swages everything back down to the desired size. I have some .362s that I size back to .358 and they look the same. You can even take the MiHec .462 Hammer hollow point designed for 45-70 and size that all the way back to .452 for a 45 Colt and they don't lose the coating.

[thumbs]

Yeah that was my question. Not knowing how these things worked I "assumed" they shaved a bit off. Swaging of course makes more sense.
I am cooking a few pc's now and have a bunch of lubed ones done. I did the straight Alox thing and the 45-45-10 mix. Again this is my first endeavor into this stuff. Yes the straight Alox seems a little tacky however the mix seems pretty nice and dry.
Waiting for the lube sizer to get here to size these PC's to see how they do. The revolver shoots the .358's pretty well so we will see.

again thanks for all the info and help

[Beagle333]

If for any reason, it does take any of coating off..... either the coating isn't being applied/cured properly or you happened to get a die that needs a wee bit of attention with some 600 or 800 grit paper. (I have read of it, but haven't gotten any rough ones myself)
You can polish a sizing die to a mirror smoothness without adding any noticeable diameter to the sized boolits if you are slow and careful with the paper.

[Dvedw]

Lee push-thru sizers don't size by scraping off the excess. It swages everything back down to the desired size. I have some .362s that I size back to .358 and they look the same. You can even take the MiHec .462 Hammer hollow point designed for 45-70 and size that all the way back to .452 for a 45 Colt and they don't lose the coating.

Yes I understand it is a swaging die, but going on what I observed I thought it may be shaving a very small amount of material in the process..... Based on what you are saying I may have had an adhesion problem with the pc. Next batch I'll try a post size only.

[thumbs]

I edited post 51 pretty heavily. I tumbled 45-45-10 and straight Johnson's past wax. Two different tumbles. The Johnsons seems pretty dry. The 45-45-10 is just a tad tacky. If I reduced the Alox just a bit it may dry pretty close to the Johnson's.
Some things I learned today. Mic your casted bullets to make sure they are pretty close. Just take a sample and check them. I put some of first casting that I knew were a bit large and jammed the sizer. I got it loose but it tought me a lesson.
I put some light coated PC bullets through the sizer and like you guys said they looked good after the sizing. It is a thin coat but they sized right to .357. When i say a light coat I mean I tumbled them then tapped them on the side of the tub to take off any loose stuff.
I am in the process of cooking some heavier coated PC's to see what the difference is in sizing. These I just picked up and put on the tray.
Now for loading. Man what a tremendous difference when I sized the pc bullets and loaded them. They just fell in the chambers. Before I had to fiddly with the rounds to try to get them from shaving the round to chamber. I pulled all those and went with the sized ones.
I know this is old news to your guys that know what your doing but maybe another new guy to this stuff like me may benefit.

The only thing I don't like about PC is the setting the bullets up on the sheet for cooking. Now I am tumbling not electronically coating. I have to use tweezers to manipulate the coated bullets. If you just put them on the try with your fingers it would be faster. Of course you need protective gloves as to not touch the bullets with your bare hands.
Tumbling is much faster but...there is the time to wait for the bullets to dry and if you tumble let dry then size then tumble then wait it takes a couple of days. That's ok it you have planned for it and have other stuff to load while waiting. This is where PC could also be used if your in a little more of a hurry.

Just all newby thoughts. Still not done yet.

[bangerjim]

There is no comparison in the time needed for TL to tumble & dry completely and the time it takes to pik-n-set several/many hundred BBDT boolits. PC is much faster. PC is much cleaner. PC is even much perrrrrrrrtier.

Did y'all figure out yet that I really like PC?!?!?!?!?!?

[thumbs]

There is no comparison in the time needed for TL to tumble & dry completely and the time it takes to pik-n-set several/many hundred BBDT boolits. PC is much faster. PC is much cleaner. PC is even much perrrrrrrrtier.

Did y'all figure out yet that I really like PC?!?!?!?!?!?

Well tell ya the truth I am kinda leaning that way. The proof is in the puddin though. I will have to shoot em and see how they fly. I am seeing the mess your talkin about.
The last batch of PC that I put on without tapping against the container look better. I think the others are fine also but these do look better. Thats probably the way I will go. Haven't shot any of them yet though.

[shoot-n-lead]

I edited post 51 pretty heavily. I tumbled 45-45-10 and straight Johnson's past wax. Two different tumbles. The Johnsons seems pretty dry. The 45-45-10 is just a tad tacky. If I reduced the Alox just a bit it may dry pretty close to the Johnson's.
Some things I learned today. Mic your casted bullets to make sure they are pretty close. Just take a sample and check them. I put some of first casting that I knew were a bit large and jammed the sizer. I got it loose but it tought me a lesson.
I put some light coated PC bullets through the sizer and like you guys said they looked good after the sizing. It is a thin coat but they sized right to .357. When i say a light coat I mean I tumbled them then tapped them on the side of the tub to take off any loose stuff.
I am in the process of cooking some heavier coated PC's to see what the difference is in sizing. These I just picked up and put on the tray.
Now for loading. Man what a tremendous difference when I sized the pc bullets and loaded them. They just fell in the chambers. Before I had to fiddly with the rounds to try to get them from shaving the round to chamber. I pulled all those and went with the sized ones.
I know this is old news to your guys that know what your doing but maybe another new guy to this stuff like me may benefit.

The only thing I don't like about PC is the setting the bullets up on the sheet for cooking. Now I am tumbling not electronically coating. I have to use tweezers to manipulate the coated bullets. If you just put them on the try with your fingers it would be faster. Of course you need protective gloves as to not touch the bullets with your bare hands.
Tumbling is much faster but...there is the time to wait for the bullets to dry and if you tumble let dry then size then tumble then wait it takes a couple of days. That's ok it you have planned for it and have other stuff to load while waiting. This is where PC could also be used if your in a little more of a hurry.

Just all newby thoughts. Still not done yet.

thumbs, I do not set my boolits on end. I just drop them in a food colander to let the extra powder drop thru...then I just dump them on the foil covered cooking pan and put them in the oven.

There is no need to set them on end to cook...wasted time. Just dump the bullets out of the colander onto the pan and cook'em...however they fall.

[bangerjim]

thumbs, I do not set my boolits on end. I just drop them in a food colander to let the extra powder drop thru...then I just dump them on the foil covered cooking pan and put them in the oven.

There is no need to set them on end to cook...wasted time. Just dump the bullets out of the colander onto the pan and cook'em...however they fall.

I sure would like to see some good hi-rez close-up detailed pictures of those boolits you just dump.

Just sayin'.......my hump-n-dump boolits look like carp compared to my pick-n-set, let alone the perfect ESPC's ones. And bragging rights are a big part of my PC thing at the ranges!

Thanks!

banger

[Schrag4]

I've been setting mine on end. I'm tempted to try the dumping method on a single batch and see if I notice any leading as a result. I don't shoot enough to need the bump in throughput, in fact I'm kinda sad when I'm out of projectiles to coat.

I'm actually completely out of projectiles at the moment, coated or otherwise (loaded the last ones earlier this week), although I did make up some ingots from WW about a month ago, when it was really hot outside. I have enough loaded ammo to wait until it's cold outside to cast, but I'm not sure I have the patience.

[shoot-n-lead]

I've been setting mine on end. I'm tempted to try the dumping method on a single batch and see if I notice any leading as a result. I don't shoot enough to need the bump in throughput, in fact I'm kinda sad when I'm out of projectiles to coat.

I'm actually completely out of projectiles at the moment, coated or otherwise (loaded the last ones earlier this week), although I did make up some ingots from WW about a month ago, when it was really hot outside. I have enough loaded ammo to wait until it's cold outside to cast, but I'm not sure I have the patience.

There will be no leading from dumping them...believe me, I have dumped thousands and have never had a problem with them. When cooking is complete, there is no sticking to the foil...just rake or pour them into your storage container. I have shot them up to 1700fps...shiny bore afterward.

Why do you think dumping them would cause leading?