Once upon a time...

[Good Cheer]

About 1979-1980 I started thinking about making up my own deer hunting rifle to work with cast the way I wanted it to. Seemed like every marketed rifle and cartridge combo had short comings of one sort or the other that I didn't want to live with so I said poo on all them and decided just to by golly design my own. I still remember my father's doubt upon the outcome.
But, before going to that extreme, off the shelf dies and cases were examined for possibly getting enough powder capacity, large enough bore and long enough neck to satisfy the basic design parameters that my research told me to go for.

Looking at the notes from back then some of candidates examined were:
8x57 formed from 30-06.
Shortened .338 Winchester formed from 45-70.
Shortened .340 Weatherby formed from .45 Basic.
.358 Winchester formed from 30-06.
.358 Remington sized from .458 to get a longer neck.
Shortened .375H&H formed from .45 Basic.

Well, got to wondering if I was the only one around that had run down that rabbit hole. Any yall have a special hunting cartridge that you created just for hunting? If you have, I'd love to hear about what you were seeking to create and what you came up with.

[OnHoPr]

Interesting OP. I don't know why there aren't any responses yet. That 35 Goodsteel is working on sounds pretty good. From my own opinion which would be different than most because of the way I usually hunt and the characteristics that PL hunting in MI is like. One minute you can't see your belt because of the brush and a few steps further you can shoot 1/2 mi. So, to me BC is one of the most important factors of hunting. Hey, I have shot a few deer with 44 cal boolits and bullets, but if the November wind is blowing just a touch and you come to a two track, clear cut, or power line and you see your first buck of the season and it is 275 yds away, that BC is very important. That 4 pt might be the only buck you see all season. Boolits with good BC range from 8mm like the 471 to the 35 with some decent BC and the 9.3 and at the largest the 375. But, to get good BC from it, it needs to be long and heavy and a case large enough to put a considerable amount of slow powder in for the gentler push with a soft boolit. The 8mm seems a little small, but that .475 BC is very respectable for a cast boolit especially in the wind and longer distances. The 35 and 9.3 give decent caliber, good weight to heavy weight and fairly decent BC.

What would be one of the criteria is the boolit doing any angle raking shot at 40 yds on a 250 dressed buck, but still go over double diameter at 300 yds with hopefully less than about a ft of wind drift with 10 mph winds and not to much more than a 10" over the back line aim point at 300 yds even with something like a 175 sight in range.

The action would be a consideration as well, or at least in my neck of the woods. I know west of the big muddy it is either a bolt or a lever. The prior is just a touch slower to work and the lever really doesn't allow very high BC boolits with its tubular feed unless it is the Savage 99 or BLR. The Savage has just a little bit of a short magazine for the longer BC boolits or you would have to seat them deep which in not really favorable. Though the 30BR and the 308 do well in the CBA. So, maybe one of the wildcat 284s would be optimal in the boolit sizes mentioned above. As for the bolt, my first rifle was a bolt action rem 514 back in the early '70s and it has many uses which it thrives at, but not really in my hunting idiosyncrasies. If you could develop one of the short mag cases to function in the 99 mag, push the shoulder back and give a touch longer neck and put a bigger cal boolit in it would be something

East of the big muddy bolts, autos, levers, single shot, and pumps are the norm. The auto seems like a great candidate, but generally it is harder to get to 1 MOA and 2 MOA is starting to get a little large @ 300 yds on a hill top watching a powerline with tall oaks on the hill and short cedars on the flat with 13 mph winds swirling from perpendicular to dead funnel through. As for the single shot, well heck they kill deer also. My second shotgun was a Topper 58 in 12 ga to teach myself to shoot and try to make the first one count. It was a good learning tool. The muzzleloader and the TC break actions are single shot and I have both. I can work a single shot just about as well as a bolt, but they are not all around optimum. The pump is one of my favorite actions. It can be fast, dependable, and accurate as well as being fast handling, or at least east of the big muddy.

When it comes to cases and boolits, the boolits do have a little bit of parameters to contend with. For optimum the case should be from a minimum of about 3 CC to about 4.5 CC of volume. The 358 case would be the smallest and the 300 rem short mag would be about the biggest, and maybe push the shoulder back about .250 on it. A case that could be filled with the slower powders to give a gentler push of a softer heavier longer high BC boolit and still push a cast boolit maybe 2400 fps with 90% capacity or more. Necking up a 30-40 krag to 8mm to 9.3 would give decent case capacity and a longer neck for the cast boolit or at least helping to keep the base of the boolit in the neck portion, maybe even AI it. But, besides fiddling with dies, bolt faces would need to be adjusted as well as magazines along with rebores.

I have thought about a more optimal cast boolit hunting rifle for my style of hunting and east of the big muddy. The 760 rem in 35 whelen would be about close to optimal without messing with hardly anything. With the same rifle the 8 by 57 or 8mm-06 as well as the 9.3 by 62 should suffice with just a rebore and not having to mess with dies, bolt faces, and magazines. Rebore in the 1 in 12 to 14 range instead of the mil surp twist. These could also be used in a BLR. The Savage 99 is still possible with the 358 and possible rebore with a larger 284 wildcat might even be better if you don't mind the short neck and short magazine, but hey if it shoots well, I guess that's what the rifle would like and would meet the criteria.

Back a few years ago I was in a pawn shop seeing what they had and there was an old beat up 742 in 6mm. Thoughts can get challenging at times. I seen in the CBA archives where contestants were shooting unrestricted for years and doing well then they went to shooting hunter and maybe production class with the 223 and @ 200 yds with low BC boolits and competing well, well maybe a little self challenge got the best of them.

[rking22]

Say a 760 in 35??? Yep, built one this spring, but my needs end about 200 yards or less. I found a very forlorn '57 760 someone had "taticooled". 125$ if I remember correctly due to the rediculously short 30-06 barrel. Took off the short barrel and plastic stocks and replaced with a 26inch 14 twist 35 cal and some vintage wood. Chambered it with a 35Whelen reamer to 2 inch case length. Shortened a set of Lee dies and installed a 35 Rem expander rod. It has a case capacity of slightly more than 35 Rem with the nice long neck of the Whelen for cast. Cases form from 308 LC fairly easily and I have an unending supply. The capacity is between 35Rem and 358Win, but 2000fps is all I want velocity wise anyway and I like a casefulla slowish powder. It shoots the 230 NOE at 2000fps on 95% case of AA4064 fairly well. Have not fooled with it much lately as I have a 375BB 94 that distracted me
So yes I did all that for a reduced capacity 35 Whelen in a 760. But I like pumpguns, medium bore cast boolits, and "fidlin with stuff". Oh, and I have less that 350$ in the gun, dies, and NOE mould! I may shorten the barrel at some time, but with the BB94 I have my woods gun.
here's a pic of the long neck 35:

[357Mag]

GOOD CHEER -

Howdy !

I designed/formed my first wildcat design, to be a great anti-groundhog round. After trying many factory and also custom .22-250s, I wanted something with more capability. I decided to neck-down .35 Remington to .224" cal. At first, I shot .22-35 from a 24" 1-14; and for many years.
When I re-barreled the rifle, I again chambered in .22-35, but in a 28" 1-8. I had no trouble operating .22-35 from a standard .308 bolt face, and my Wichita WBR1375 action featured an M-16 style extractor. .22-25 was a great dual role' varmint/target cartridge.

When I decided to go a little larger on calibre for my dual-role' rifle, I went w/ a new 6mm wildcat of my own design. To control costs, my idea was to go w/ an existing 6mm chamber reamer run-in " short ". My research showed that a 6mm Remington reamer could be run-in short, to arrive @ a chamber base diam of .466" . 7 X 64 Brenneke brass is utilized as the parent case for my " DEEP 6 " wildcat. No custom reamers to have to $$$, and no custom dies to $$$.
Case capacity is 51.2gr H2O, which positions DEEP 6 between cases like 6 X 47 Lapua, 6 Creedmoor, 6 XC; and .243 Win.

I have multiple ideas for .35 calibre wildcats:
- .358Win reamer run-in short, and 7 X 64 brass used for a wildcat that has a tad more capacity than a .35 Rem; but case oal is shorter than 1.920" .
This could allow the wildcat to exceed .35 Rem performance, shooting bullets seated out further; while perhaps not having to exceed .35 Rem cartridge oal.

- .358Win reamer run-in short, and .35 Rem brass used to produce a .35 cal wildcat that would be in-essence a " rimless " version of ".357 - 44 Bain & Davis".
Sample brass I formed of this .35 cal wildcat fit .45ACP "N" frame " Moonclips ", and would be a speed loading dream.

- " .35 Milkcan " - This is an interim case shape that was produced while forming 7mm BR brass into " .357 Auto Mag ".
After expanding 7BR brass to .35 cal, it exists in the .35 Milkcan configuration, until a final die is utilized to shove the shoulder downward to final .357Auto Mag
locations. .35 Milkcan is in other words.... essentially a " .35 BR ", w/o a 30* shoulder angle ( not critical in a cartridge of this calibre; w/ this case capacity).

- .357 Auto Mag - Not my own design, to be sure. My comment is that these are readily formed from either 6mm BR or 7mm BR brass. Lapua BR brass features the small primer pocket. In my .22" barreled carbine w/ 1-16 twist, I was able to produce repeat 5/8" 5-shot groups @ 300yd; using a benchrest grade barrel, action, trigger; and scope. 180 gr "J"-words and 150gr plated SPs all shot extremely well..... the 180s over 24gr WW296 & SR Mag primers.

- 9.3 X 62 run-in short on a .358" cal barrel, and 7 X 64 brass utilized. This is a notional .35" cal wildcat, intended for shooting boolits that have been " patched "
w/ DYMO label maker tape. Case capacity would be similar to .35 Rem .

- " 6.5 KIWI " - This 6.5mm wildcat has a chamber that can be cut by running a 6 X 47 Lapua reamer in a tad " deeper . .308 family brass is utilized.
6.5 KIWI was designed as a low- cost wildcat for a New Zealand hunter of TAR. Case capacity is positioned between that of 6 X 47L and 6 Creedmoor.
I formed case out of both .260 Rem brass and .358 Win brass, when I was not able to obtain any 7mm-08 or .308 brass. Rem-brand .260 Rem brass
would not consistently provide .012" minimum neck wall thickness desired, while .358 Win-derived wildcat brass necks were easily neck turned to .012" final.

- .32-.357Mag - This is a revolver wildcat made by necking .357Mag down to .32" cal. The idea was to come-up w/ a super-fast speed-loading handgun wildcat.
I formed some sample cases, and even went as far as sending a couple "N"-frame speed loaders full of inert .32-.357Mag cartridges to Jerry Miculek's office.

And I still am not out of ideas:
- 8mm Mag chamber shortened to .500" base diam; and .284 Win brass used ( " 8 M atch M aster " )
- .351 SL formed to 8mm ( " Straight 8 " )
- 8 Lebel reamer in-short for .500 " base diam ( " 8 Mili-Mortar " )

The list goes on.....


With regards,
357Mag

[nekshot]

have you brought back memories! I used to fiddle all winter and summer on the perfect rifle/cartridge ideas and yet when fall came around the 30-06 with 180 grain reloads stoked to full house always ended up in the field with me. Alot of good thinking done otherwise! I hunt in the same type situation you speak of, thick vines and brush then open for 400 yards.

[bearcove]

7mm or 30 cal, 7-08 or 308 reamer and dies, 44mag brass, standard reamer short chambered and shortened dies. Should work nice in a contender.

[Good Cheer]

This is an idea I occasionally tinker on, .338 Federal with a .42 or longer neck length.

[Wolfer]

For the last couple years I have been working toward a cast friendly deer rifle. I am a tinkerer and tend to mess with everything. I'm also thrifty and like to build things from what I have laying around.
So here's what I came up with from mostly parts laying around.

Turkish Mauser action
I purchased a shot out 7x57 barrel
Had it bored to .338 with a 14" twist
The reamer shipped yesterday. 338-06 I'll run it in till it just cleans up the 7x57 shoulder.
Shortened my 338-06 dies by .259. ( this will be adjusted once I have a pound cast of my chamber)

cut it off a 338 win mag trim die and epoxied in a drill bit. I'll cut this to length when I know what it is.

Walnut stock from Boyd's. Timney trigger.
Im hoping the reamer shows up tomorrow but don't expect it until next week.

The mold I have is the Lee 220 gr. I only want around 2000' fps or a little above. I suspect the 14 twist will allow me to go considerably faster. I just don't feel I need it.

The only things I've purchased for this project is the barrel, stock and trigger. I had everthing else laying around.
Case capacity will be slightly more than a 338 federal with the neck of a 338-06

This is far more fun than buying a new factory rifle.

[OnHoPr]

There is a bit of creativity here on this thread that sounds real good. I think I am going to start a thread about the 32 & 34 cals. There is much info on the 30 and 35 cals that lead to light weight and heavy weight, small cal and mid cal that these two cals seem very interesting.