MA Systems collator for the star

[VHoward]

I have recently gotten one of these. I am having an issue of bullets jamming up right at the top of the entry to the bullet chute. I have adjusted the angle the bowl is set for and adjusted the chute back and forth trying to find the right combination. I have gotten it to a point where it will collate bullets just fine for a while, then suddenly it will jam up. Before I can turn it off, a few bullets will over flow that chute and be all over the bench and floor. I am trying 45 acp 200 grain round flat points. The instruction manual that came with it appear to be for a previous model as I find it confusing when it talks about parts that are different on the model I got. It's hard to follow to do a set up according to the manual. It's almost like it is collating too fast, but there is no speed adjustment on it. I have a router speed control. I wonder if I plug it into that and slow it down a little if it will stop jamming?

Anybody have one of these that could possibly help troubleshoot?

[andre3k]

Is this a newer model or older one? Their manuals are horrible. In situation like this I found it easier to call them and they've been pretty good about walking me through situations over the phone. The speed controller is pretty important. Was it not included when you bought it?

[VHoward]

I purchased it through Magma Engineering. I have only had it for a week. They had it drop shipped to me from MA Systems already configured for nose down feeding. There was no speed control with it. There appears to be 3 different models according to the manual. It was pretty straight forward for hooking the tubes up between the star bullet feeder and the collator, but figuring out the proper angle and settings seem to be elusive for the moment. I will call MA Systems and speak to them. See what they can tell me. I am going to try the router speed control and see if slowing it down helps.

[GabbyM]

It took me a couple days of hair pulling to figure mine out. They are straight up voodoo to set. Your 200 grain 45 is going to be a hard one to get running as they are about as wide as they are long. With no variable speed I'm not sure you'll be able to get it running jam free. Moving the drop tube shoot around is primary. I have very few bullets that will run at full rpm. which is no issue as you don't need the speed even for the automated size machine. For a hand operated press one third speed or even slower would be plenty fast. I'll assume you have the Dayton DC motor. My guess would be there speed controller is pricey. If I were you I'd check into it or perhaps someone here with some knowledge of electronics can draw up a simple circuit that would slow the motor down.
Good luck.

[VHoward]

Thanks. I was thinking speed was the main issue I watched it while it was running and the jams mainly occur when there are several in a row that made it through the sorting process. The router speed control I have is from Harbor Freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/router-...rol-43060.html It is this one. Would there be an issue with it?

[VHoward]

The router speed control does not work with this unit. It either runs full speed or if you turn the dial down any, the motor just stops and buzzes.
I went ahead and messed with the angle of the collator bowl some more and it seems I have found a combination of angle and chute position that works. I got so frustrated with it yesterday I was ready to take a sledge hammer to it. I walked away from it instead and went back this afternoon. I still think it could benefit greatly from a speed control though. I have a dc motor speed control coming for a different project and will try it when it comes. If that works, I will order another as it was only $10 shipped.

[jmorris]

Not knowing what motor they use I wouldn't suggest using that kind of speed control. If it is a brushed AC/DC gear motor, it would be fine.

If it is a DC motor a PWM would be best to keep torque.

Only being a week old, I would have them fix it. That's coming from a guy that likes to fix problems himself.

That brings up another question, last time I contacted MA Systems their collators ran around $1000. What do they cost now? If it is still about the same I certainly would not change a thing and send it back.

Would not risk "letting the smoke out" of something and taking out the warranty in doing so.

[andre3k]

I think they run about 1200 or 1300. Mine runs pretty good now but it was a headache to setup. I cant see running this thing without a speed control. Did they forget it or is it simply not needed for the star sizer? Mine has a speed controller but im feeding a lubemaster.

[VHoward]

It is $1035.00. The speed control is not included on this one. I am going to remove the cover from over the motor and measure the voltage going into the motor. If it is an AC/DC motor, then I won't be able to add a speed control. If it is a DC motor, then the electronics engineer at work says it is easy to do.

[andre3k]

Why dont you just get the controller from m-a systems?

[VHoward]

The speed controller is only available for the 14" model. The one I got is the 12" model. It seems that the upgrade includes a clutch system and that is only available in 14 inches.

[andre3k]

The speed controller is only available for the 14" model. The one I got is the 12" model. It seems that the upgrade includes a clutch system and that is only available in 14 inches.

Ok I thought you had the 14 inch. Well here is a link to the one that came with mine and its a 14 inch model.
http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYT...olNEMA-1-4Z527

[Littleton Shot Maker]

with out speed control never going to be happy.
we had that on a very steep incline, with the plates on the rear all the way down, there are some bullets that are just a hassle but with out speed control you will NEVER be happy with the unit.!!!!!
I have had 4 running at one time and they where all a little bit off from the one next to it....got to where we set one up for 45 and never changed it, the other was 38 the other 9 the 4th was the one we would change as we needed.

ALL OF them with speed control.

Magma did not have the unit to send you, they dropped shipped it from MA.?? wow-
should have just dealt with MA System directly, we do now. Never had troubles that way... working on rebuilding #5 collater , needs a new clutch- don;t over load them the clutch is a bear and not cheap to re-do

[AbluquerqueBullet,LLC]

I have one of the smaller units and i can get it set up to successfully run any bullet i have. no speed controler just patients and you will get it all figured out.I'am thinking the speed controller will not help you unless it effects gravity. if you are getting bullets stuck are they nose out or nose in? when the bullet falls from the collator plate gravity takes over the bullet is orientated in a flat position by the plate. The pickup tube has to hit the rear of the bullet first sending it into a nose dive "desired" or a front flip "not desired" if it does not hit the rear in time the bullet will not dive or flip causing it to get stuck with the nose pointed out like the collator plate orientates it. to soon it will front flip over rotate and get stuck nose pointed in. if the bullet gets stuck pointed in a random direction then you may need to twist the inlet tube clockwise . you want the bullet falling right into the oval opening with a good center placement remember the heavier bullets will keep going in the direction the plate was pushing them. making the bullets rotate "very little but a bit" clockwise as they fall. the best way to set it up is to get up close and personal with the very start of the drop tube and watch the bullets react to hitting the tube do they bounce, flip, spin, or slide right in? When collating the heavy bullets the inlet tube rotation has played a big rule in proper performance. Stick with it and you will get it.

The machine is very difficult to get figured out and if adding s speed controller would make it that much easier to use i think m-a would already be doing that for you like they do with the 14". I doubt they would hinder a $1000 unit by not adding a $20 part. Cutting cost by greatly sacrificing performance is just not there style. The machine can feed over 5000 parts per hour when properly set. i run it on both my auto-star and lubemaster that runs 80 per minute / 4800 per hour.

I will admit some times i mess with it for 2 hours before its running just right.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

these where not 1st made for bullets but for counting pills. nuts- bolts ..that is what I was told about 15 years ago.

I run the speed control slow enough to keep up with sizer , no faster than that. with small bullets it is easy with 45-70 not so much

[VHoward]

I have one of the smaller units and i can get it set up to successfully run any bullet i have. no speed controler just patients and you will get it all figured out.I'am thinking the speed controller will not help you unless it effects gravity. if you are getting bullets stuck are they nose out or nose in? when the bullet falls from the collator plate gravity takes over the bullet is orientated in a flat position by the plate. The pickup tube has to hit the rear of the bullet first sending it into a nose dive "desired" or a front flip "not desired" if it does not hit the rear in time the bullet will not dive or flip causing it to get stuck with the nose pointed out like the collator plate orientates it. to soon it will front flip over rotate and get stuck nose pointed in. if the bullet gets stuck pointed in a random direction then you may need to twist the inlet tube clockwise . you want the bullet falling right into the oval opening with a good center placement remember the heavier bullets will keep going in the direction the plate was pushing them. making the bullets rotate "very little but a bit" clockwise as they fall. the best way to set it up is to get up close and personal with the very start of the drop tube and watch the bullets react to hitting the tube do they bounce, flip, spin, or slide right in? When collating the heavy bullets the inlet tube rotation has played a big rule in proper performance. Stick with it and you will get it.

The machine is very difficult to get figured out and if adding s speed controller would make it that much easier to use i think m-a would already be doing that for you like they do with the 14". I doubt they would hinder a $1000 unit by not adding a $20 part. Cutting cost by greatly sacrificing performance is just not there style. The machine can feed over 5000 parts per hour when properly set. i run it on both my auto-star and lubemaster that runs 80 per minute / 4800 per hour.

I will admit some times i mess with it for 2 hours before its running just right.

Thanks for this post. I have read and re-read the manual and something just was not clicking with me. Normally I am very mechanically inclined and can figure things out. I went to my shop and ran some more bullets through it and got up close and personal like you said. I noticed the bullets were falling and hitting the right side of the collection funnel and were bouncing to the left before going in. They were mostly going through,but had an occasional jam. Annoying enough to make you crazy. I then looked on the bottom and then only noticed that the funnel could be adjusted side to side as well as back and forth. So I moved the funnel right a little at a time until the bullets were dropping straight in. Now it is running without jams and I am happy. Now I can get back to making more bullets to rebuild my stock.

[VHoward]

these where not 1st made for bullets but for counting pills. nuts- bolts ..that is what I was told about 15 years ago.

I run the speed control slow enough to keep up with sizer , no faster than that. with small bullets it is easy with 45-70 not so much

It only makes sense that a company that makes collators for industrial use could figure out how to get their machines to collate bullets. I was just having a reading comprehension problem with the manual that came with it. After following AlbuquerqueBullets suggestion and looking at the operation "up close and personal", I finally figured out what the manual and you guys were trying to tell me about the adjustments. It is working fine now, but still think this machine could have benefited from a speed control. The bullets are moving so fast I was having trouble seeing where they were going.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

get spare drop tubes. they used to really suck, they have gotten better but I used to break those all the time back in the day. the tube will come loose some time and slide down, check it after a few thousand bullets to make sure it is where you set it .

[VHoward]

This thing seems to beat up the bullets quit a bit. Would less angle on the bowl improve that? Still getting the occasional jamb.

[GabbyM]

To reduce bullet wear. Don't overfill the hopper. That way the bullets aren't in there so long.