Powder Coating and gas checks...

[Lloyd Smale]

this isn't my first rodeo. Ive been casting and shooting cast for 35 years. In that time ive come to one conclusion about gas checked bullets. there more accurate overall then non gas checked bullets. they usually take less load development to get there too. Now I cant say EVERY gas check bullet is great. Ive ran into dud gas checked bullets. But overall you have a better chance of finding accuracy with on then the same bullets design without one. Ill add too that ive NEVER found great accuracy with ANY gas checked bullet leaving the gas check off. You basically just made a sharp edged bevel base bullet and bevel based bullets are all **** in my opinion. The gas checked bullets without checks are probably worse yet. Do you need them to keep leading down. Maybe not in a good gun and maybe not with a coated bullet. But they sure do help. Especially if your gun tends to lead. Coating helps prevent leading but it does nothing to prevent bullets from turning into a blob of lead if pushed by real high pressures and it doesn't nothing to prevent bullet failures down range because you pushed them faster then your alloy is capable of handling. I guess some of this boils down to what your expectations are. If you want to roll beer cans at 25 yards about anything works. If you want accuracy down range or terminal performance on game theres a lot more to this then preventing leading. Bottom line is if that bullets cut for a check, use it. If you want a plain based bullet buy a plain based mold.

[jeepyj]

Marked for reading

[Markbo]

Great post Lloyd. Very good stuff!

[popper]

I don't coat the base as it reduces accuracy. No leading. I use a modified base, leave ~020 shank left. Push 145gr 2100, 170gr 1600 in BO. The 170 up to 1500 in 30/30 with unique, need to try different powder for 1800. I get a very flat base with sharp edges. Tried the PB RD and didn't get good results.

[xman9282]

I cast a Lee 312-155-2R for my 300 blackout. I put a copper check on them from day one. I'm pushing them right around 2000 fps and have excellent accuracy and no leading. I've never tried them without checks. I figure why mess with something that works so well.

Rhino--
Just wondering if you are sizing at 309 or shooting as 312

[dimaprok]

That guy Elvis on YouTube has been Powder Coating 300 BO and .556 for his AR using Winchester 748, and keeping the MV around 2,500 FPS and no Gas Checks. He's had no leading or accuracy issues.

If you consider a "thumb size" groups at 30 yards is accurate ... sure. Have you ever seen Elvis Ammo test any of his cast bullets at 50 yards or 100 yards?? I have not seen it. Also in that video where he got 2500fps (it was less actually) he never mentioned whatever he used gaschecks or not.

[white eagle]

what is the cost of a single gas check?
all I know is if it aids in accuracy what does it matter the cost

[nh7792]

Thank you. It's nice to see another comment on what PC and Hi-Tek are. Many arguments over it being referred to as a "Jacket".

[nh7792]

My experience with PC and Hi-Tek gas check/no gas check bullets showed me that if there is a shank for a check but no check on it, the accuracy suffered.
GC and PB bullets were "ok" group wise at 50 yards, but opened up quite a bit at 75 yards.
Tried 223 and 308 AR platform rifles. loaded at 20% under minimum jacketed load data. Did Not fine tune/ladder test loads.

[Motor]

It's been a while since I posted last time on this thread. I do see powder coating more as a polymer jacket than when this post was started.

I shoot a 440gr Lee that is designed for a gas check with a load that produces over 30kpsi with 12BHN alloy without a gas check. (500 S&W) This same bullet with a very mild load (12gr Unique) and lubed would spray paint my muzzle brake with lead because of pressure cutting of the base edge as it exited the barrel.

With shake and bake powder coating (which coats the base) and 27.5gr of Lil-gun there is no lead fouling in my muzzle brake. Accuracy is nearly one ragged hole at 50 yards. I see no reason to gas check this bullet.

I recently started casting the Lee 340gr which is not a gas check design in my 45-70. Accuracy is as good as any J-word I ever used in it which is pretty darn good. The bullet is of course powder coated as well.

All of my other pistol moulds are non gas check design and work great with PC regardless of the load levels. I don't believe "polymer jacket" is too far off the mark. As far as accuracy goes with or without gas checks I'll take it one load development at a time.

Motor

[white eagle]

I use a gas check to improve accuracy never seen where adding them
has ever hurt in that regard and to use a softer alloy than what you would
think advisable for a given velocity, meaning push a softer alloy harder
I use powder coating the same way personally I see the use of both as
a win win

[Grmps]

there is always a lot of talk about alloy hardness and gas checks.

In my opinion, If your boolit isn't the proper size for your bore nothing else will really help.

gas checks help make up for improperly sized/hardness but are not a cure-all.

Slug your barrel (rifle and pistol) then go 1 to 3 thou over depending on alloy, velocity, and purpose of boolit

The harder your going to push a boolit the more a gas check will help prevent blow-by/gas cutting.

[speedyr]

I"m a bit late to the game for the powder coating but what I'm trying to decide is if you are starting from scratch with new molds and plan to powder coat the bullets, are you better off getting gas check molds or sticking with plain base?

NOE in most of the newer calibers I'm considering makes both plain and GC versions. Mostly considering 35 remington, 224 (39gr hornet/bee and maybe something for 5.56AR), and maybe something in the 30 caliber (150-170gr FN style).

I have gas checks already, but if the PC PB version is going to shoot as well as the PC GC that I'd prefer not to have the extra step/cost of using gas checks..

but as other mention, if it's more accurate or just better performance (cleaner, accurate, etc) I'm fine to go the GC route.

Lastly I assume folks are casting, powder coating, then sizing and installing the gas checks?

I plan to get the NOE sizing die system if that matters. Since I'm starting that seems to be a good option if you are going to size a few different calibers and possibly need some options (I have a few different 45 colt pistols/rifles so I assume when I slug them they might be different).

any thoughts and feedback appreciated.

[tomme boy]

Gas checks will always be more accurate. If you plan to stay under 1500fps then go plain base.

[popper]

Go with the GC, make life simple to start.

[bruce drake]

I've just started PC coating my bullets and I find that I prefer to do two coats of PC for both rifle and pistol bullets as I feel I can guarantee complete coverage that way. With both types of bullets I size and gas-check after the first coat and for my gas-checked bullets I then tumble again and coat for the second time to ensure that the gaschecks are firmly secured to the bullet with the PC.

My question to others, Am I overdoing it with the PC for the second coat with the gas-checked bullets?

[Markbo]

How much diameter are you adding with 2 coats???

[tomme boy]

Might be. One of my bullets I have for my Mosin I had to seat about 0.035" deeper as it was hard into the throat. A friend stopped over a few weeks back as he was PC a Lee 9mm 125 2r. It was not letting him close the slide on SOME of the bullets. He was doing 2 coats as you were. So he came back a couple days later with more bullets that he PC only one time this time. We loaded them up at my place and did the plunk test on about 20 of the rounds. We went off his OAL to set them up and NONE of them jammed into the throat. We went and shot 250 of them without a single problem

[fcvan]

I make my own gas checks (thank you PatMarlins) both conventional and plain base (soda can) checks. It is all a part of the hobby. I have been powder coating for 5 years now, and have been shooting many high pressure plain base boolits without checks (NOE 24-62 RN PB) up to 2350fps. I have seen a few folks who have bested that speed in 30cal boolits. I am still working on that load development. For now, I am taking little steps, working on bigger strides, but remembering that a cast boolit does not need the same velocity as j-words to provide performance. My 300BO loads perform, my 308Win loads perform. Do I need more velocity? Not really.

I have learned so much from this forum, and have been inspired to try new things because of the great people who frequent this site. What a great bunch of folks here!

[odette]

I am casting .44 mag, 9 bhn, 240gn bullets from an old RCBS 44 Sil mold. Handgun is a T/C 14" Contender with a .4295 bore. I cast the bullets and a week later I size them to .431 thru a NOE bushing then PC them. I would put a GC on them and run thru the sizing bushing again, but now am thinking of just sizing a few without the GC and see how it goes. I am getting 1500fps out of the T/C barrel and if the PC acts as a jacket, would it be the same as shooting a step boattail bullet or would the gas eat away the barrel shooting a GC design bullet without the GC