Lee PrecisionInline FabricationRepackboxRotoMetals2
Snyders JerkyLoad DataWidenersReloading Everything
MidSouth Shooters Supply Titan Reloading
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Optics for 44 mag revolvers , Ruger black Hawk , S&W-29

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Slow Elk 45/70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Clear, AK
    Posts
    1,289

    Optics for 44 mag revolvers , Ruger black Hawk , S&W-29

    Hullo guys, I am getting to the place/ age...that I need some help. I have a couple of Ruger 44's-Black hawk and a couple of S&W 29's .

    My question to any of you that use red dot "halo" sights or red dot grip sights, what do you like best, what is your opinion ? Also any info on mounting Halo/red dot . these are not new models with any frills.

    I don't shoot many full house loads any more , 210gr-250gr boolits 900-1200 FPS , kill a lot of cans these days. My hands/wrist are used up, but I still LUV to shoot my old 44's and lots of Boolits!!!
    won't take the abuse any more.

    Thank you in advance for any info / opinions




    Any suggestions on places for more info?
    Slow Elk 45/70

    Praise the Lord & Pass the Ammo

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    2,506
    This works for me on my 44mag and 357mag. Easier to pick up than the open micro red dots. Adjustable dot size and brightness adjustments and lifetime warranty.Attachment 149664

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N/E Oklahoma
    Posts
    300
    Slow Elk: I have a ruger bisley hunter and 6" ruger gp100 both scoped with 2X leupolds. This a real good way to find out how much you shake. I'm not a huge fan of the red dot scopes, just old fashioned I guess. The red dots (depending on the moa size of the dot) can cover up a lot of your target. Probably will still be "minute of can" accurate. Good luck in your quest for optics. Old blind guys have to do what they have to do to keep shooting.
    Siamese4570

  4. #4
    Boolit Master stubert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Catskill Mountains, NY
    Posts
    582
    Look at Ultra dot, I had one on a Ruger SBH .44 mag. for years and it never failed. I shoot mostly near max loads.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Hickory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Great Black Swamp of Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    4,434
    Last edited by Hickory; 09-24-2015 at 04:54 PM.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    21,330
    + 1 for the Burris FastFire III.

    I have a Fast fire II on my Ruger Bisley .41 Magnum and find it to be handy and an excellent sight. I D&T'd the top strap for a thin flat bottomed Weaver base. That way the irons are still there and zeroed if needed.

    Larry Gibson

    Attachment 149677

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    2,506
    I also had a Burris FF3 and put it on the .44mag handgun and on a Win 1886 45-70. It's slower to pick up with the handgun due to the design of this type of sight. I shot a lot of competition for many years with a variety of handguns....all topped with red dots. The Burris FF3 is very good, but like all micro dots it is a bit harder to find the dot. Not because of brightness, because of the position of the gun. Looking through the "tin can" is always quicker. As far as shooting groups with one.......on my Win 1886 45-70 I can consistently shoot five shots under 1.8" with the dot at my private range of 114 yds. This is off bags and using a shooting table. My largest groups were 1.8" and my smallest were around 1.3-1.5".

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    contender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Lake Lure NC
    Posts
    2,445
    I own several different red dot optics. C-More,,, the gold standard for years in competition, Older Tasco Optimas, a Burris, a Leupold, and a few Ultra Dot's, of different designs.
    I find the open, more compact, types better in the woods as it allows you to see more "around" the game. You can get away with a bigger dot for "minute of deer." For punching paper & informal shooting,,, I prefer a smaller MOA dot for more precise shot placement. The tube types are just fine, as they make you align the gun easier.
    I suggest you try a few to see what you think. Whatever you get,,, for your calibers, get a quality brand.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    south western pennsylvina
    Posts
    3,413
    Most of my handguns have some type of red dot sight mostly tube style and 4 semi autos with the slide mounted rear sight dovetail open style, and a few have scopes . I prefer the tube style RD without variable dot size's !,( something else to go wrong , two VS RD sights broke on me & dot tracking when changing dot size leaves something to be desired for best accuracy beyond 25 + yards. on most brands, I had 4 brands of these
    I have been using red dot sights for about 25 years currently have quit a few on handguns and a few rifles & a air pistol.

    Tell me your price range and I can help you select the best one for the money. or the pros & cons on the ones ive had, Ive have or had about most good quality brands from 40 to 600 dollars
    Last edited by bobthenailer; 09-25-2015 at 08:17 AM.

  10. #10
    Banned

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,705
    All of mine have straight Ultra Dots on them, 4 minute dot but they are really not that large and can be held on a tin can at 100. Small groups can be shot.
    I tested the one with adjustable dots and found as I changed the dot, the POI changed.
    I like the 30mm and the rings that come with them really work although I use 3 on the .500 JRH.
    If you have recoil the heads up ones can have poor mounting systems so you need to pay heavy for a good one.
    I have used many and cheap ones can break. I don't like the Bushnell or Millet. Recoil has pulled the front prism out of the tube. They are just glued in.
    One thing I never do is to mount a ring over any glass. I put the front ring right against the turret and the rear one can go anywhere. For a third ring, I put the front extension on tight and put a ring on it.
    Here is what an adjustable dot did. Attachment 149698Attachment 149699 This is how I did the .500. It has held for thousands of heavy loads. This was a clean barrel test and the top hole is the first shot. Not too bad from a clean gun!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,053
    Whatever you get, you'll have to get use to it unless you shoot a semi-auto and mill the slide. On Revolvers I've tried the Leupold Deltapoint and the Aimpoint micro 2 moa dot - I much prefer the Leupold as for me, it was quicker to locate the 7.5 moa delta.

    A larger dot doesn't make it any easier to locate when you're bringing the revolver to bare. For me the Leupold was quicker while my friend can get on target just as fast or faster using his aimpoint, so like I said, one just has to get use to what they like on their revolvers.

    Now for accuracy - I don't think you can beat the deltapoint, as if you use just the tip of the delta as your aiming point, it's about like having a 1/4 moa dot - so off sandbags with proper technique, I think you can do a bit better shooting groups than a 2 or 4 moa dot using the 6 O'clock hold method. Just my opinion of course.

    The only problem one might find with the aforementioned red dots is price - both of them are expensive. I put the Aimpoint on my AR and it does well there and the battery life is said to be 5-years. Can't confirm that as I'm just on my 3rd year with the original battery and I have left that puppy on for several months at a time - not on purpose but just the same -- if you have CRS big time that Aimpoint will still be ready to go when you are.

  12. #12
    Vendor Sponsor

    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    7,410
    BE CAREFUL when picking a handgun scope. Some are only parallax free @100yds (Leupold) and will play hell with 25 and 50yd groups. Most of the dots are parallax free at any distance unless they have magnification. This alone would be a major factor for me in choosing optics for a 44 magnum. If you only target shoot, and you usually shoot 100yds, the Leupold 2-7x32 may be all the scope you need but personally you could not GIVE me a scope with 100yd parallax because I rarely target shoot OR hunt beyond about 35yds. There are excellent handgun scopes with 35yd parallax if you choose a scope over a dot.

    Basically if you are going to use a scope, it comes down to buy a scope that has parallax set at or close to the distance you intend to shoot the most from.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  13. #13
    Banned

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,705
    Parallax is not a big deal. Any handgun scope over one power will show every shake your body can manufacture unless shot from a rest. They also lose the 5mm exit pupil in dim light before it reaches your eye. Parallax is gone if you look straight through the scope.
    Any scope over 1X will drive you nuts off hand.
    Parallax from 100 to 50 is only 1/5". WOW! .2 of an inch.
    Darn it Doug, I know scopes. The more powerful they are the worse they are. Exit pupil gets smaller until you are looking through a 1/4" tube at night with you holding a rattler by the tail without getting bit. Get an Ultra Dot!

  14. #14
    Vendor Sponsor

    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    7,410
    On paper it might be .2" but in real life shooting off a rest, at 50yds, move one's eye in a circular pattern behind the scope and watch the crosshairs describe about a 5" circle. Now stop and move the crosshairs until they are on target again and fire one shot. Again, move the eye in a circular pattern, stop at random and align the crosshairs. After a cylinder full of this madness, what size is the group? 5" maybe? 6? Think this gun can shoot 3" groups at 25yards on a good day? Then take the scope off and use open sights and put the same gun and same loads into an inch.. Parallax is more of a deal than most ppl pay attention to then they wonder why their groups are so lousy.

    Off topic, but.. I shoot airguns in the back yard. I thinned out our squirrel population by about 80% to keep them from wreaking havoc in my garden. I use an air rifle for this, and one of them has a cheapo wally world 4x scope on it, with a dot this gun will shoot into a dime across the yard every time. With the 4x scope, I have had it miss head shots on the nutters only to go shoot a target with it and see groups open to 2 1/2" inches. All from parallax.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  15. #15
    Banned

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,705
    Airguns are what? 10 yard guns so you sure don't want 100 yard parallax. As you increase scope power it gets worse. It is why high power scopes have an adjustable objective.
    Parallax is where the cross hairs are to the focal point of the objective. Zero is where they intersect.You will NOT move a 2X pistol scope 5" moving your eye. An airgun scope set at 10 yards is NASTY at 100.

  16. #16
    Banned

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,705
    A picture comes into a scope inverted and lenses invert the picture. so you see in the real world. The picture must fall into the plane of the cross hairs so you move the cross hairs or the picture from the objective to the plane. A little off and you have parallax. it is bad at 30' if the scope is set for 50 yards.
    Most pistol scopes are set at 50. Funny since most think 25 is long range. Rifle scopes are set to 100 but variables to high power have adjustments. But to blame parallax with a scope set to 100 to miss at 50 is folly.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,053
    I am no scope guru but I do understand parallax a little. With my sort of custom benchrest scopes - most Leupold - the AO adjustment numbers are just guesstimates, as all of mine were off by a little and a lot but you just put the x-hair on a dot, move your head side to side and adjust until the x-hair no longer moves.

    I don't recall ever seeing the x-hair move out of the X-ring at either the 100 or 200 yard ranges, so the x-hair movement on my scopes weren't much at all but when 0.01 to 0.005 inches could mean the difference between placing in the top 3 or top 5 or else placing in the upper 1/3 - well, I would make sure the scope wasn't the cause for not placing in the top tier.

  18. #18
    Banned

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,705
    Quote Originally Posted by ole 5 hole group View Post
    I am no scope guru but I do understand parallax a little. With my sort of custom benchrest scopes - most Leupold - the AO adjustment numbers are just guesstimates, as all of mine were off by a little and a lot but you just put the x-hair on a dot, move your head side to side and adjust until the x-hair no longer moves.

    I don't recall ever seeing the x-hair move out of the X-ring at either the 100 or 200 yard ranges, so the x-hair movement on my scopes weren't much at all but when 0.01 to 0.005 inches could mean the difference between placing in the top 3 or top 5 or else placing in the upper 1/3 - well, I would make sure the scope wasn't the cause for not placing in the top tier.
    That is also true, not many markings are correct. Best to adjust until there is no movement. I sent Burris scopes back because they would not ever get right. But we are talking BR quality, not a simple handgun scope. I have Loopies and Tasco scopes right on the money to the marks.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Slow Elk 45/70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Clear, AK
    Posts
    1,289
    Thanks for the info and your expertise...I thank you all for the impute, the only hand gun scope I have is a 2x on my 30-30 TC with 14" bbl.
    I am very happy with that rig...so I thought I would ask about the revolvers...My eyes ain't what they once waz
    Slow Elk 45/70

    Praise the Lord & Pass the Ammo

  20. #20
    Boolit Master



    gray wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Western Maine
    Posts
    3,840
    Parallax in Rifle Scopes



    OPTICS TECH: PARALLAX EXPLAINED (Analysis by U.S. Optics)
    Whenever rifle scopes are discussed, a topic that frequently arises is parallax. There seems to be a great amount of misunderstanding and confusion concerning this subject. Parallax can be defined appropriately to rifle scopes as the apparent movement of objects within the field of view in relation to the reticle.

    In a telescopic sight, parallax occurs when the “primary image” of the object is formed either in front of, or behind the reticle. If the eye is moved from the optical axis of the scope, this also creates parallax.

    If the primary image is formed on the same focal plane as the reticle, or if the eye is positioned in the optical axis of the scope, then there is no parallax, regardless of the position of the primary image.

    High magnification scopes, or scopes for long-range shooting, where even slight sighting errors would be serious, should be equipped with a parallax adjustment. This adjustment of the objective part of the optical system would ensure that the target can be brought in the exact focal plane of the reticle at any distance. Tactical style scopes are not usually supplied with parallax adjustment because the exact range of the target can never be anticipated. Scopes of lower magnification are not usually supplied with parallax adjustment either, because at lower powers the amount of parallax is so small as to have no importance for practical, fast target acquisition.



    TWO FACTORS WHICH CAUSE AND DETERMINE THE AMOUNT OF PARALLAX IN A RIFLESCOPE:

    1. The distance of the target to the objective--The objective lens forms a primary image of the subject being viewed and subsequent components invert the image, and there is no parallax. The actual position at which the image is formed is dependent on the distance the target is from the objective. Closer targets are formed farther away from the objective and farther targets are formed closer to the objective. Since the reticle is in a fixed position within the scope housing, the image is not always formed in the same plane as the reticle and, hence parallax.

    2. The distance the eye can move from the optical axis of the scope, is determined by exit pupil size. There is no parallax, at any distance, as long as the eye is lined up exactly with the optical axis of the scope. An exit pupil small enough to do this would be impractical. It is important to know that in every scope, there is some parallax. It is also important to know that in every scope, there is some one shooting distance at which there is no parallax. In most rifle scopes this one point of zero parallax is usually placed at a suitable mid-range point in the scopes' focal range.

    In lower-quality scopes, there are other sources of parallax. If the reticle is not precisely placed the correct distance from the objective, the distance of no parallax will be exaggerated. Reticles that are not securely mounted and allowed to move even a few thousandths of an inch, will always have changing amounts of parallax. Parallax is also caused by optical deficiencies in the objective, either by design or manufacture. If spherical or astigmatic aberrations have not been corrected, images will form a considerable distance from the reticle. If you see a scope in which the apparent movement of the reticle compared with the image viewed is different from when you move your eye up and down than when you mover your eye side to side, it is because of a bad objective. No adjustment of the scope will eliminate these faults or optical deficiencies.

    You can check the parallax of any scope by sighting an object at normal shooting distance (not indoors), by moving your eye side to side (then up and down), as far as you can, keeping the sighted object within the field of view. The apparent movement of the reticle in relation the target is parallax.






    PARALLAX CORRECTIVE METHODS (Optics Design)

    I. REAR (SECOND FOCAL PLANE TYPE) CORRECTIVE ADJUSTMENTS.

    This feature is usually a numbered range ring from minimum yardage (usually 50) to maximum yardage (usually infinity) and sets directly in front of the eyepiece, similar to the usual variable power ring but controls the Parallax Adjustment. This is almost always found only on fixed power scopes, due to the internal construction. This adjustment is usually found on scopes of more than 8x and less than 20x. Some Examples are Tasco, Phrobis and Baush&Lomb tactical scopes.

    Advantages:
    • Is near the shooter and can be reached easily. Cheap to make.

    Disadvantages:
    • Very coarse adjustment and hard to use, especially on higher power.
    • Left eye cannot see the yardage indicator while looking through the scope and movement is extremely coarse.
    • Difficult, if not impossible, to make work on conventional variable-power scopes.

    II. MIDDLE (TURRET/SADDLE TYPE) CORRECTIVE METHOD

    Usually on left side of turret with yardage increments printed around the radius of a third knob. Designed to be easily reachable and adjustable with left hand while looking through scope. An example is Leupold Mark IV Tactical (or NightForce NXS in illustration).

    Advantages:
    • Easy reachable from shooting position.

    Disadvantages:
    • Most companies using this style build it in such a way as to not be able to easily read the yardage numbers without shifting ones head from the eyepiece. This lessens the utility.
    • With some other brands of scopes we've tested it is difficult to achieve maximum target sharpness with near-zero parallax. There are many reasons for this, including sloppy production tolerances.
    • Is very coarse and not as finely tunable, particularly at higher power without putting a very large (3" or larger) knob on, which again, defeats the concept.
    • Has more mechanical systems to fail. More expensive to make, if done well

    [EDITOR'S NOTE: When using Leupold side-focus scopes, such as the 6.5-20X LRT, lash in the focus knob can lead to focusing problems. When this happens your target is slightly out-of-focus when you've got the parallax "dialed-down" as much as possible. To get better, more repeatable focus, you should rotate the side-focus knob ALL the way forward to the infinity stop before setting the parallax adjustment. Go slowly. If you go past the point where parallax is minimized and focus is sharp, then go all the way back to the infinity stop and start again.]

    III. FRONT (OBJECTIVE LENS TYPE)



    This is one of the oldest, most proven and still the probably the best and most versatile system optically and mechanically. Either very fine or rapid gain fast threads can be used, depending on the application. If made properly, it can be as rugged and abuse resistant, as the three other types of adjustment, while offering many advantages the first two methods don’t have. This method is usually seen as a fixed objective, (set at the factory and non-adjustable w/o special tools), or fully adjustable by hand.

    Advantages:
    • Optically the most proven and efficient.
    • Mechanically, the most versatile and effective way.
    • Historically, fixed objective scopes up to 10x have been most accepted by the military because of ruggedness.

    Disadvantages:
    • On extremely long scopes can be hard to reach from the shooter’s position.
    • Cannot easily see the range or yardage increments from shooter’s position.
    • Can Leak easier,( on hand adjustable models), if not made well

    IV. U.S. OPTICS "ERGO" ADJUSTMENT SYSTEM



    After many years of designing and building scopes for myself and other companies, we think this system, which is a refinement of #3 above, has all the advantages of the above systems and none of the disadvantages. Those advantages are:

    • One can see the yardage increments very clearly with the left eye while looking through the scope with the right eye.
    • Is easily reachable while in shooting position.
    • Has a finer adjustment than knob-turret type designs.
    • Can be made to accommodate slow or rapid gain operation, depending on the need and application.
    • Can be made as rugged and sealable as necessary.
    • Is modularly modifiable for different applications.

    US Optics can build all four of the above systems, depending on the need, but prefer and recommend the #4 ERGO system by far.



    Hate is like drinking poison and hoping the other man dies.

    *Cohesiveness* *Leadership* *a common cause***

    ***In a gunfight your expected to be an active participant in your own rescue***

    The effective range of an excuse is ZERO Meters

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check