50 Cal ML what bullet

[Irascible]

1)I have a T/C Encore muzzle loader with a Beggara barrel. What would be a good cast bullet to use without a sabot?
2)Same question for my CVA Optima single shot handgun?

[johnson1942]

about a 500 to 535 grain cast bullet for the encore, for you cva optima hangun. the same. however the one i have bounced off my forehead a couple of time due to recoil and now im sleeveing it to a 32 inch 40 cal 1/16 twist. for a paperpatched bullet. too much recoil with any load i tried. going to put a light weight home made stock on it also for the shoulder. i also would recommend a paperpatched bullet for your encore. sized to .492 before wrapping with a 60 thousands thick wad made of fiber or poly material between bullet and powder. i use 18 pound freezer wrap paper one wrap but you could dry wrap number 9 all wood fiber paper two wraps. i have a 1/28 twist .50 cal and paper patch a 535 grain .492 diam bullet and it is very very accurate. i use 80 grain of powder behind the bullet. hard hitting and accurate. paperpatch is a lot easier and better than a lubed cast bullet. no lube is used when paperpatching.

[rsrocket1]

I have had pretty good luck with the Lee 250g REAL bullet. I lube with 2:1 beeswax:vaseline and use an overpowder card or overpowder wad between the bullet and powder. Shoots decent at 50 yards with as low as 45g but I haven't done much better than about 6" groups at 100 yards with loads between 45 and 100g. I haven't tried fine tuning the loads yet but that's still in the future. I bought a used Sharpes conical minie ball mould here a few months ago. It was a challenge to cast good bases and I have yet to shoot a halfway decent group with it, but I'm still trying. This is with a CVA Optima Pro rifle. The rifle shoots very well with sabots and bullets made for my 45ACP 1911, but not as well (yet) with full size .50 cal bullets. Maybe the faster 1:28" barrels just prefer sabots.

[johnson1942]

they prefer a longer 50 cal bullet about 500 to 550 grain with a short nose.

[bubba.50]

I assume both of yer guns have fast-twist barrels. in that case ya may want to look into the paper-patch loads that get talked about right much here. haven't tried it myself but it sure sounds interestin'.

[OnHoPr]

The TC macksi ball will shoot out of it well with the + or - 10 grs or so of about 70 grs. Lee has all kinds of boolits that will shoot out of it just as well as a lot of other mold makers. It all depends on if you want to PP or not. One boolit is greasy or possibly not sticky with the right lube and the other is paper. You can also shoot a PRB out of it. All of them will require considerable range time for 100 yd shooting for paper or deer. You may want to keep the weight down on the boolit with the pistol to manage recoil. One way to keep the weight down with the pistol is to use sabots and something like a Lee or other mold manufacturer's cast 240 gr boolit.

[Pyro&Black]

What you have there is a sabot ML. Not sure why you bought a sabot gun with intentions on shooting conicals. With that T/C Encore QLA sitting at the end of your muzzle, it's not a friend of conicals. Yes it shoots them, but they are a bear to accurately shoot them for mid-long distances.

Had you purchased a Knight or CVA without that QLA, conicals would be a better choice.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

The Bergara barrel is a CVA barrel so it should be just fine with conicals.

Easiest conical of course is a Powerbelt. I'd suggest the 250 or 300gr Aerolite. Expensive for target shooting yes. One hell of a killing bullet come hunting season.

90-100gr Blackhorn209

[Irascible]

Wow! 500+ gr would be a real kicker. Is there a Hollow base bullet that would give me length with less weight?
I bought the Begarra barrel for my Encore pistol in order shoot cast in sabots. I had in mind my 310gr, RFN, .454 bullet, then I started thinking about no sabot so I posted the question above. I don't know if I'm going to like this so I'll try one of the LEE bullets first as the molds are cheap. Already using BLhorn 209, expensive, but VERY accurate and I can shoot a good 5 shot group without cleaning! Thanks guys. Here goes nothing.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

.451/.452 would be better. Ive never seen a sabot offered for a .454 dia bullet.

[robertmcw]

I have an old T/C Black Diamond (50 cal.) a when I got it I used the old ‘Black Belt Bullets’ all lead bullet with the black hula hoop skirt is attached to the plastic black end. I was using 95 grains of T7 and at 100 yards I was getting about a two and a half inch group with three shots. I thought that was close to kill a deer as I use a neck shot. Then I was having issues with the power going off right away so I switched to Swiss. That solved those issues with the delay right away. Then I tried the Barnes Muzzleloader MZ bullets with a sabot. My group decreased so now I can shoot a three group that are the holes are touching on the paper at 100 yards (sometimes the third shot is off a ½ inch off). I feel if you are hunting a deer, you want it be dead where it drops. If you are playing with paper, who cares what you spread is? But if you are killing one of ‘the maker’s creatures,’ you have a duty to do it as cleanly you can. With that said get some good sabots for hunting and cast away for paper. In reality, how deer can you legally kill a deer per year? That is my 2 cents.

RM

[Irascible]

By 454, I meant the lead bullets that I use in my 454 Casull. They are sized to .452.

[True.grit]

I use 44 cal havester sabots and a .432 boolet and they load great. I think you could get a .454 size boolet in a 45 cal sabot easy.

[quilbilly]

I use 44 cal havester sabots and a .432 boolet and they load great. I think you could get a .454 size boolet in a 45 cal sabot easy.

MMP makes (or at least used to make) a black sabot for the 50 cal. that uses either 451 or 454 boolits.

[SSGOldfart]

MMP makes (or at least used to make) a black sabot for the 50 cal. that uses either 451 or 454 boolits.

Yes Sir they still work great,I'm using a 300gr 44 bullets with the black sabot about 2 to 2.5" groups@100 yards 80gr.powder. (5shot groups) with my TC encore.

[725]

I've got a Black Diamond, too. Won it at a fire station raffle. Played around with various sabot stuff and was never satisfied. Called T/C and spoke to a tech there who advised to use the T/C Shock wave bullet/sabot (one I hadn't used yet) and some Triple Seven loose powder -not the pellets. Now that's my meat load. Shock Waves are cheaper than the Power Belts, and for me, are more accurate. Still goes against my grain to shoot plastic, but when the mission is to make meat, what the heck. My sidelocks and cast get most of fawning attention.

[OverMax]

Staying on subject. As far as a bullet by itself. Hornady Great Plains or a Lee cast Real or just a plain old Maxi would serve the purpose. CVA Optima on the other hand probably would shoot well with Power Belts since CVA owns the Power Belt company. BTW: I know a couple of lads who shoot Optima's and what they prefer> Power Belts over Tripple 777 pellet charges.

[curator]

My Encore 50X209 shoots the Lee .50/320 REAL with good accuracy. The 1 in 28" twist does just fine with the REAL cast from pure lead with about 2% tin added. The load can vary from 70 to about 90 grains of FFg or Pyro@%$? "RS" as long as there is a tight fitting card or felt wad between powder and boolit. I lube mine with a 50/50 bee's wax/lard mix which works well at keeping the fouling soft for accurate repeated shots without having to swab the bore. I don't use pelletized propellants.

[newton]

If your up to trying things, you will be pleased with the Lee 500 S&W boolit paper patched. Use Ron's formula of 80 grains Pyrodex P. Its a tried and true combo. I have an Optima V2 that will only see this combo for the rest of its life as far as I can tell. It just that accurate.

[Irascible]

Over on the NOE web sight, I noticed a mold for a copy of the Great Plains bullet. I ordered one. I hope it's everything that has been reported.