Leading problem, too soft BHN?

[Petrol & Powder]

Ditto on Dragonheart's comments concerning dies. The Dillon dies are easy to clean without losing your settings. Redding stuff is top notch but expensive. RCBS is a close second and less expensive. I use an assortment of dies and have no brand loyalty but you can't go wrong with Redding or RCBS. I run Redding dies on my Dillon 550 when loading 9mm and a LOT of cartridges have been through those dies.
The Redding Micrometer seating die is a bit of overkill for pistol cartridges but it does allow one to change bullets without having to adjust the entire die body. Personally I'd rather pick one bullet and stick with it but that die does provide some flexibility if you frequently load more than one bullet type.

Seating and crimping in separate steps is key.

[Jlamont2020]

Yea, I've been running seperate seating & crimping dies, but really wanted the lockout for my progressive. Just went and double checked. The dies I bought were the RCBS lockout, Redding Sizing, RCBS Taper/ C Seater, RCBS PTX, and RCBS bullet feed (which is still on backorder). I did also buy a mirror kit from my LGS (don't remember brand, but it mounts with a copper rod that goes around a die) so I could remove the lockout if I was feeling daring, but not having run a progressive before I like the fall back. I considered running the crimp on my single stage, but untimately decided to use that for my universal decapper since I wet tumble. If only the new rock chucker 7 (or whatever RCBS called the new 7 station press) used the APS strips I like, I would have bought that. I'm already looking at buying a Lyman M die for expanding, is there anything else with my progressive setup that requires attention?

[Schrag4]

...Seating and crimping in separate steps is key.

Maybe I missed where this conversation is going, but his problem wasn't whether or not he's seating and crimping in separate steps (the OP already was, as we all know). At the risk of sounding incredibly cheap, why shouldn't the OP try seating and crimping in the same step, as a change, with the dies he already has? I have the same dies as the OP and that's what I do. The main difference that I know of is that I PC my boolits, and I size them a bit smaller than he does. There may be other wild differences too, such as seating depth (shouldn't matter, right?) and boolit design, and I admit that those factors might prove that he needs a separate die (not the FCD) to crimp. If he can remove flare without crushing the boolits with his seating die, isn't it at least worth trying before ordering anything else and waiting for it to arrive? He could do that right now and have an answer in 30 minutes.

[Motor]

I've been seating and crimping in one step for 30 years without any problems. I typically can set it up in one try without needing any further adjustment. If you are loading on a progressive press then sure seat and crimp in 2 steps you have to pull the handle anyway.

Anyone who has trouble seating and crimping in one step is simply does not have everything set up properly. This includes case preparation. If you are shaving boolits you really have something out of whack especially with taper crimp where all your supposed to be doing is removing the mouth flair.

The Lee pistol FCD has its place. Loading .358" boolits in 9mm is not one of them or loading oversize boolits into any caliber. The post sizing ring can cause you problems with oversize boolits and can destroy your neck tension. You can't afford to lose your neck tension in any cartridge especially not one that basically relies 100% on it to hold the boolits like a taper crimped auto loader.

Motor

[popper]

IMHO, 9 is hardest to load cast. Tapered case, medium pressure, tough case, etc. Even too large can cause leading due to sharp edge at throat. Gets worse with faster powders. Then most moulds are RN so you have to get a good seater plug to get them straight. I couldn't get 20:1 to work in 40SW either, so put some Sb in it, hardball, superhard, lino, anything.

[Dragonheart]

Yes, you can seat & crimp in one step like I had to do so many years ago, but I do load several bullet configurations depending on what I want to load to do, I match the bullet to the gun, as I shoot for accuracy. It is also a lot easier for a new handloader to set up than an all in one operation.
As far as just seating a bullet there is a tremendous difference in accuracy by changing the OAL. I recently demonstrated this to a new IDPA shooter using a Ransom Rest and using his same load out of his Glock, just changing the OAL of his load. His 10 shot group size went from 7" to 3 ", so the OAL can make a big difference, just ask any bench rest rifle shooter. The same attention to detail will make a handgun load more accurate. So, I guess it is what you want to get out of handloading, for me it is to know that if I am off it's not the gun or the load.

[Tom_in_AZ]

Most likely sized incorrectly

[Springfield0612]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...ucjgtmbmhaokj1. Powder through expander that will work from .356-.360

http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-se...er_name=38%20s
This is a cheaper solution that will open up your casees to .360 but that is all you get. This is what I use as all my 9mm and .380's sized out at .358. So my bullets drop at .359 and with PC I size to .360. If using a Lee seat and crimp die ensure that it is correctly setup IAW the directions. If you dont set your seating depth before you turn the die down to add a LITTLE crimp (remove belling at the mouth) You will over crimp and swage your bullets. Using the above kept me from loosing my mind with shooting cast in 9mm and .380 and go back to plated or J words.) Good luck!

[dudel]

Both of my Kahr CW45's have given me such fits ive about abandoned cast in them and switched to plated or jwords.

Same thing with my Kahr CW9. There may be a 9mm mold that it likes; but I've not found it (and I've stopped looking). It likes plated just fine.

OP: One gun is a Kahr, what's the other one? A Glock perhaps?

[dudel]

The lee push throughs are what I have now. Well .300, .356 and .358 anyways. How will those help with PC? I usually swab a bit of alox on the inside of the push through die every session to help 'em through.

Are you lubing them up again after you use the Lee push through sizer? The sizer takes the alox off the bearing surfaces.

[Jlamont2020]

dudel, I've been a bit buay with things so I haven't had time to cast or reload (or go shootin' for thag matter) but I've powder coated my last batch of boolits and loaded them a few weeks back. I'm probably going to try that next as it's closest to the "do-all" 9mm ammo I'm looking for. It wont be great in accuracy, but neither is undersized jacketed ammo.
The guns I was shooting my 9mm cast loads in last were:
Kahr CM9
Kahr CW9
Beretta 92A1
and Beretta CX4

Also, I was lubing them after sizing them, I would put a bit of lube in the inside of the sizer to help them through.

[Alan in Vermont]

I see several people have solved this with a lyman M expander. I bought a RCBS PTX die and linkage a few months ago along with a pro 2000 that's all still in the box. So whenever I do upgrade beyond my single hopefully I can get the case activated linkage to work with the lyman M expander.

The M die will work with the Pro-2000, it needs to be set up in the primer seating station like a conventional expander die.

Lose the Lee FCD!! Way too likely to swage your bullets into junk than get a decent crimping operation. After seeing one of those *** swage boolits in 45 ACP, with resulting leading and the leading go away instantly on the return to a regular crimp die I am doubly sure none will ever grace my loading bench.

Don't get in a big yank to get the Pro-2000 in operation. Figure out what is wrong with single stage operations, where you can watch/measure/confirm every step as you go along. At this point all a progressive will do is permit you to make a bunch of bad ammunition,,,,,,, but you will be able to do it very rapidly.

I'm not anti-progressive tooling, I own, and generally enjoy, my Pro-2000. After about 40 years loading single stage I about went nuts trying to deal with all the little nuances a progressive brings to the loading bench.

[MtGun44]

Sigh. I wish I had a dollar for every thread on "why is my 9mm leading and the
boolits hitting sideways".

It would be really helpful to spend some time in the Classics and Stickies section.

This should help.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-in-a-new-9mm

Regardless of the tons of "official BS" out there in the shooting world, BHN is not a
primary issue in leading, maybe 4th on the list or lower.

"Fit is king", a great comment by an old member, is the key. Too small and usually too
hard are the most common culprits, not too soft.

Bill

[Dragonheart]

Hi Bill,

You hit the nail on the head. So many want one shoe to fit all feet and it just doesn't work if accuracy is your goal.

[Digital Dan]

One shoe can fit all feet if it's the right shoe. By that I mean consistent proven methodology.

Read quite a bit before I started casting, asked questions and read some more. Fit/Alloy/Load is a good part of the equation. Been at it for about 6 years, casting and shooting everything from a Hornet to .50 cal bench guns, pure lead to 50/50 lino/WW and have yet to lead a barrel. 700-2200 fps +/-.

Fit is important. Debate can be had about Groove to .001-.002" over groove, but under groove is a non-starter.
Alloy - .22 RF ammo has a BHN of around 7-8 for most brands. They operate at a peak pressure in the 26-27 KPSI range. They use copper wash or wax for lube. -Hint-
Load - A fella can do pretty much whatever he wants with lead if he pays attention to the first 2 items above.

Stuff I've loaded lead in:

.22 Hornet
.25-20 Win.
.25-20 SS
7x57
.30-30
.358 Win.
.357 Mag
.38 Spcl
.38-55 Win
.38 picket rifle
.40-.38-55
.40 WA BP bench rifle
.416 Rigby
.44 Mag
.45-70
.50 BP bench rifle

After all that, I still can't make 'em lead. On Halloween eve I lament the things I've not missed out on in life, such as leaded barrels from factory ammo.

[Dragonheart]

Yes, consistent proven methodology starts by knowing what size your barrel is and at what point a particular bullet touches the lands, which I think is probably just two of the items missing in a one size fits all approach.

[old beekeeper]

There is a quote I never forget when loading, my wife explained it this way, "No matter what anybody says, size IS important."

And she is right. I learned it the hard with Marlins microgrove barrells. Once I poured oversized bullets, sized them a thousand or two over the barrel size, all my leading problems went away even with a BHN of around 6 or 7. I use nothing but Alox for lube and have no troubles unless you get up into the hot velocities then all bets are off. I have shot some pure lead 38's out of my Ruber Security Six with no lube and as long as they were running about 850 I did not get leading after about 300 rounds. Size is important. Especially in shooting.

Beekeeper