Leading problem, too soft BHN?

[Motor]

If you want to simplify things get your alloy up to 15bhn and stop shooting .358" boolits in a .359" bore.

The harder alloy will fix your swaging in case problem as well as your pressure cutting that is causing your leading. Is there other ways, sure there is, like larger expander for your brass plus a few others but getting your alloy up to 15bhn may be the easiest way.

I have recently started powder coating and since doing so I can now shoot 12bhn in my 9mms. I still size all my 9mms .358" though and my barrel is .355"

If you use mostly close to pure lead I suggest you find some linotype. It works great for me to increase my alloy hardness.

Oh forgot to mention, lead/linotype alloy responds well to water quenching to increase hardness.

Motor

[Petrol & Powder]

The OP stated in post #12 that his bullets were .354"

"And yes, I just measured some of my pulled boolits and they seem to average .354 after being seated..."

So he's shooting .354" bullets in bores up to .359".
I don't think he needs to do anything with alloy or lube until he corrects that glaring issue.

[Cherokee]

thanks for posting that link...good info. OP needs harder bullets or larger expander to keep the size correct after seating the bullet.

[Motor]

The OP stated in post #12 that his bullets were .354"

"And yes, I just measured some of my pulled boolits and they seem to average .354 after being seated..."

So he's shooting .354" bullets in bores up to .359".
I don't think he needs to do anything with alloy or lube until he corrects that glaring issue.

His boolits are being sized down during seating. If he makes his alloy 15bhn his boolits will be hard enough to retain their diameter when seated.

Motor

[GabbyM]

9mm brass is tough stuff. Even 2:6:92 alloy at BHN #15 is readily swaged from case necks that are not properly expanded to -.002" to -.001" under boolit diameter. After that you need to check that your expander is reaching deep enough for your bullet seat depth. Then you need to ensure the taper crimp die is not crushing your bullets. In my experience there is only one eighth to one quarter turn of adjustment from just right to destroyed.

[Dragonheart]

Or you could just powder coat your bullets and forget it. I shoot 9mm powder coated bullets out of 14 different 9mm handguns, some with polygonal rifling, all with no leading issues at all. My bullets are cast from range lead, no exotic mix, and velocities up to 1300 FPS. I have loads that will group 1-1/2" at 25 yards out of a Ransom Rest.

[JeffG]

Your alloy is plenty hard.
You do not need two alloys.
You may need two different loads.

Reread your post. If you are using .358 bullets in a .359 bore it is not likely to "be fine".

You do not mention your lube. Lube is more critical in the 9mm than any other handgun cartridge I have ever loaded.

The 9mm is the most prone to leading of any handgun cartridge I have ever loaded.
Fit and Lube are the most critical components. MUCH more important than alloy or hardness.

I strive for .002 to .003 over grove diameter. For me, that is .357 to .358.
I cast anything (alloy) I have available from BNH 10 to 13. Occasionally bur rarely BNH 14 to 15.

Fit is CRITICAL. Not your sizing diameter but your diameter when the pin hits the primer.
Pull a bullet from cases of different head stamps.
If you are worried about pulling a bullet from a live round, load a dummy. Load it exactly like your normal procedure but omit primer and powder.
You are very likely to find that some of them are significantly smaller than you thought.
The 9mm cases vary significantly in wall thickness and some will size your bullet down to .349 to .350 during the seating operation.

Oh yes. Did I mention that fit is critical.

The popular hard lubes do not work well in the 9mm ( for me). I like LLA or Lyman 50/50. The custom mixtures mentioned frequently here are excellent. I don't use them because I am too lazy to mix them.

If you have a hard lube you can sometimes get it to work by increasing your powder charge to maximum. I don't recommend that so I just don't use the hard lubes.

The perfect storm for leading is a hard, undersized bullet with a hard lube. ( Don't go there. )

If you are determined to make one load fit all guns. make a load that works with the .359 bore. Then if the overall cartridge diameter is small enough to enter the chambers of the others, it will probably work in the others too. BUT it must fit easily and loosely. Not just crammed in.

This says it all^^^^^

[Jlamont2020]

Williamwaco/larry Gibson - I've been using the squirt-n-shake lee alox. I haven't sprung the money for a lube-sizer yet, and got an extra bottle of alox free.

Love Life/Rob S./gun cheese - I've been doing some browsing of the forums and apparently 9mm is really bad about swaging the boolit down almost regardless of BHN. I see several people have solved this with a lyman M expander. I bought a RCBS PTX die and linkage a few months ago along with a pro 2000 that's all still in the box. So whenever I do upgrade beyond my single hopefully I can get the case activated linkage to work with the lyman M expander.

Dragonheart - I'll probably try powder coating as well. Looks like $5 for the red harbor freight shake-n-bake powder. Seems easy enough to try. Plus I might be able to keep my alloy after a better expander and PC.

Thanks everyone for pointing out some of the wrong info I got browsing the web, and some of the misunderstandings I've had.

[Dragonheart]

Williamwaco/larry Gibson - I've been using the squirt-n-shake lee alox. I haven't sprung the money for a lube-sizer yet, and got an extra bottle of alox free.

Love Life/Rob S./gun cheese - I've been doing some browsing of the forums and apparently 9mm is really bad about swaging the boolit down almost regardless of BHN. I see several people have solved this with a lyman M expander. I bought a RCBS PTX die and linkage a few months ago along with a pro 2000 that's all still in the box. So whenever I do upgrade beyond my single hopefully I can get the case activated linkage to work with the lyman M expander.

Dragonheart - I'll probably try powder coating as well. Looks like $5 for the red harbor freight shake-n-bake powder. Seems easy enough to try. Plus I might be able to keep my alloy after a better expander and PC.

Thanks everyone for pointing out some of the wrong info I got browsing the web, and some of the misunderstandings I've had.

If you give powder coating a try you will find the inexpensive Lee push through sizing die the best solution. The PC bullets slide through with little effort unless your coating is just too heavy, but that typically not a problem. A couple of sprays of liquid case lube over the bullets makes the job even easier.

[Jlamont2020]

The lee push throughs are what I have now. Well .300, .356 and .358 anyways. How will those help with PC? I usually swab a bit of alox on the inside of the push through die every session to help 'em through.

[Dragonheart]

Powder Coating provides all the lubricant you need, so no more sticky mess. PC is a very hard super slick coating that acts like a jacketed bullet. It lets the bullet slide through your sizing die just like it does down your gun barrel. The PC stays intact on the bullet like a jacket, so you don't have leading in the barrel or copper fouling, just powder fouling, which is easy to clean. When I use the Lee die no lubricant is needed just push the bullet through, but to make the process even easier I sometimes spray the bullets first with liquid case lube, which I make by mixing one part lanolin to 12 parts 99% alcohol. The alcohol evaporates immediately leaving a thin film of lanolin. There are better quality powders than Harbor Freight, but their red is a cheap way to try it out. I personally will never go back to lube as powder coating does everything I need. If you have more questions just ask or check out the threads under "Coatings".

[Motor]

You don't need any lube to size a powder coated boolit. I size my 9mms with my .358" Lee push through size die. In fact I recommend that you clean the inside of your die so there is no A-Lox left in it before sizing your powder coated boolits.

Recently I found that I can even size bare cast boolits (that is absolutely no lube) with my Lee push through size dies and get perfect results without any problems.

I have also found that the force needed to size a powder coated boolit is directly related to how hard the alloy is and really is not effected by the powder coating. It actually feels like the powder coated boolits size with less force than when I used A-Lox.

Motor

[Dragonheart]

Okay, you guys got me. I really don't know how hard it is to size bullets anymore, since all I do is flick my wrist and crank out well over 2K an hour, https://youtu.be/t-YWK__2BAc If I need more umph for bulge busting 45 cases I just increase the air pressure a little. But back when I did sized like everybody else the push through powder coated bullets sized easy. Motor is right even uncoated lead with no lubricant pushes through with no problems. I know because I have tried gas checks both ways by putting the check on, sizing and tumble powder coating; all the checks stay on. And powder coating then setting the check and sizing, which looks a little prettier, since the check stands out from the colored bullet.

[Jlamont2020]

Now that is slick! I'll be spoiled enough when I unbox and setup my progressive, but that is darn neat.

[Green Monster]

What type of dies are you using in particular the crimp die? Should be using a taper crimp that only removes any flare from the powder& seating stages. Also if you are using a lee fcd ive found that can cause swaging of cast boolits. I break my seating / crimping steps into two seperate steps so i can control each more precisley.

[Jlamont2020]

I'm using a Lee 4-die kit which uses the FCD (If I recall correctly) but that'll change soon as I bought all new dies for my progressive. In truth I've been dragging my feet in setting up my progressive as I know it's going to be a much more complicated setup than my single, but I just couldn't turn away the discount I got on the RCBS stuff. So Lee FCD now, but switchin' to a RCBS taper crimp/seating die combo.

[Petrol & Powder]

I know that the Lee FCD has its followers but I not one of them. In my opinion the Lee FCD is a bad idea, not trying to start a war just stating a personal opinion. I seat and crimp in separate operations and rimless cartridges that headspace on the case mouth get a taper crimp. You need enough crimp to keep the bullet in place but not much more.
Your progressive press will likely have a powder through expander on the powder die and that expander plus your taper crimp die may solve your problem.
Set your expander to flare the case mouth just enough to accept the bullet without shaving lead and set your taper crimp die just enough to take that flare out and hold the bullet. It is useful to perform those steps with a dummy round (no primer or powder) and use your pistol barrel's chamber as a cartridge gage. After you get those dies set up, pull the bullet and measure it; it's likely you will have solved your small diameter bullet problem.

[Schrag4]

I have the Lee 4-die kit in 9mm as well, but I don't bother with the FCD. If I had to guess, that's the die that's swaging down your boolits - it was for me anyway. You simply don't need it for 9mm - you can remove the flare during seating. Just make sure your dummy rounds really do have the flare removed but also the pulled boolits are not cut into by the brass. It might take a little while to set up at first (a bit of boolit pulling which can get old quick).

Oh, and another big +1 for powder coating. Some may view it as a crutch, and I may be using it as a crutch, but even if I was getting no leading whatsoever with traditional lube I would still powder coat due to at least 5 benefits I can think of off the top of my head, most of them being "no lube on my (fill in the blank)", all led by a quite significant "no smoke while shooting indoors." The only downside is the time it takes to apply, and the results are totally worth it IMO.

[Dragonheart]

I'm using a Lee 4-die kit which uses the FCD (If I recall correctly) but that'll change soon as I bought all new dies for my progressive. In truth I've been dragging my feet in setting up my progressive as I know it's going to be a much more complicated setup than my single, but I just couldn't turn away the discount I got on the RCBS stuff. So Lee FCD now, but switchin' to a RCBS taper crimp/seating die combo.

A bit of advice from a hand-loader for over 50 years. Separate the seating and crimping into individual steps as already suggested, but spend a few bucks extra and buy the Redding Micrometer seating die. This die allows you to externally adjust the seating depth in thousandths by turning a knob. The big advantage is accuracy in maintaining your OAL and if you change bullets you can write down the seating depth and go back without the trial and error of the usual screw in seating die. Also consider the Dillon dies as they will come apart for cleaning without losing there settings and they size a little further down on the case. I have used a number of dies over the years including Herters, C-H, Lee, RCBS, Redding, Dillon, Hornady, etc. and all will work, but quality does vary and some work better than others. I don't have a problem with RCBS, but I have found Dillon and Redding about as good as you can get and Dillon's lifetime warranty is no BS.

[GabbyM]

My 2 cents:
measure your expanded 9mm brass with a calipers. Check for depth of expansion vs seating depth of your bullet.
Truncated cone bullets seat deeper than round nose bullets. Most expanders don't reach deep enough. Lyman's M die does as it works with the Lyman #356402 bullet.
To make any ammo I'd consider acceptable you must sort 9mm brass by manufacture. 9mm brass varies greatly in wall thickness and taper.
Be very careful with your crimp die. The Lee FCD is famous for crushing boolits. If you have thick walled 9mm brass then you about assured to have a crushed boolit. Likewise if you have your taper crimp die set for a brand of thinner wall cases. Then run a thick taper case into it you'll crush your bullet as your die will not be set properly for that brand of brass.

Measuring tubes with calipers you get a slight error due to the flat on the blades. Don't concern yourself much with that. Comparison is what you are after. Measure wall thickness at the mouth then see how deep you can reach before the case starts tapering to thick. You will have far better luck using a brass that has straight wall to the depth of your seated bullet. I simply use the brass with a short depth to load 124gr RN cast that seats like ball ammo.

Case capacity in various brass also varies greatly with wall and web thickness. I consider it absolutely unsafe to load un sorted 9mm brass to full power. Back in the 1970's I just slopped together 124gr FMJ over 7.7 grains of Blue Dot. Then I encountered European brass that after a couple loads would barely have a head stamp left and primer pockets so loose the primers would fall out in the magazine under recoil then I'd have a round chambered with no primer. That is when I started sorting brass and tossing out most Euro military stuff. IIRC Geco was the troublesome stuff.

Using a harder alloy in attempt to use your boolit as a case expander is not the answer. For full power loads most pistols will need at least a BHN #12 alloy like straight wheel weights. I use straight 2/6/92 air cooled with a good semi soft lube. I load a 122 TC 147 FP and the old standard Magma Engineering 124gr RN.