RCBS 22 rimfire derimming die?

[.30harris]

Does anyone who uses this die know if you're supposed to push the jacket all the way through in one go? Also, do you anneal before or after derimming on this equipment? I'm using the RCBS 22 cal derim die, a short punch that came with it, and a lee classic cast press.

The punch seems alright, but it's not tall enough to actually push the jacket fully through the die. Pushing another case to force the other out seems to just crush the jacket.

Thanks!

[runfiverun]

all the ones I have used uses the next case to push out the first. [try adjusting the die up and down it can influence how much force you need to apply to the handle too]
de-rim first then anneal if you anneal first they cannot take the force and will give you all kinds of grief.

[.30harris]

Thanks! Still no dice on feeding them one after another - it always crushes the case. So I just took the slow route, used the short punch to derim (it has good leverage for it's length), and a long rod I have around to push them out the top. Slow, but I still got a rhythm going eventually. Adjusting the die helped too - I think if I make a longer punch, AND back the die out half, that will be much more powerful.

[Pipefitter]

5mm drill rod is the right diameter, if your "shellholder button" is threaded for 5mm Dave Corbin sells ready made punches.

[roysha]

Where can one purchase this die? I've googled it with zero results except for this thread.

[goblism]

What press are you using? Does the punches base reach the derimiming die?

[.30harris]

I'm using an unmodified Lee Classic Cast press (single stage). The supplied punch's base reaches the mouth of the derimming die. The punch can unscrew from the shellholder.

[hardcase54]

Pictures would help.

[Pipefitter]

Dave Corbin sells the de-rim die, IIRC it is somewhere in the neighborhood of $80. Google Dave Corbin bullet swage and good luck with the sometimes confusing website.

[goblism]

If it unscrew I would just make a replacement punch and thread it to the shell holder

[.30harris]

[kc3ak]

I may be way off base, but could you have the die in upside down? try screwing the die in from the bottom of the press head (with the RCBS logo facing down) then the punch should move the case all the way through. Just a thought, because I seem to remember seeing that done on a die somewhere.

[Bent Ramrod]

I believe your die is very old, from the 1950's or maybe earlier. RCBS stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swage, which was the first product Fred Huntington offered for sale. He made a die to form the bullets and accessory dies to iron rims from .22RF shells, swage cores and seat them in the .22RF jackets. RCBS stopped making bullet dies in 1954.

The dies were custom made to fit the purchaser's press, so it may be that the geometry is different with your Lee press compared to the one it was originally made for.

I anneal my .22RF brass before ironing out the rims. I tried it the other way with my Corbin derim die and often tore the rim where it met the jacket. The brass was quite hard, and much harder to push through the die if not annealed. The Corbin derimmer I have is designed to pop the ironed cup into an open space so the next .22 shell can push in and push it out the top. If your die isn't loose enough past the ironing ring for a cup to pass through easily, it may be that you will have to run the jackets halfway through, and readjust. But you might try annealing first. Remember, many .22RF empties that could be scrounged back in the 1950's were still the old copper shells rather than the brass ones we see today. They would be easier to push through the die, annealed or not.

I'd be interested to hear where you got your die. First one I've seen, even in a picture.

[.30harris]

Thanks!
I might try a few annealed (once I get the means to do it). The die inside is a very gradual taper, then the last 3/8 portion is a straight neck - a hard squeeze for the jacket. That bit about the copper casings makes sense.


I got the dies (jacket maker, core seat, and point form) in an auction. The original owner had them for a long time - I'm not sure if he purchased them direct from RCBS, or from someone else who had. The set is incomplete - no core swage die, or ejector apparatus. I think the point form die must be one of the later ones, since it has interrupted threads.

Thanks for your help!

[Bent Ramrod]

Does your bullet die look like this? (On the right is the ram and punch; the die is on the left.)

[.30harris]

Yeap!- My punch looks like its adapted for dunbar/hollywood presses

[Bent Ramrod]

Wow, all right! It isn't that your set has lost the core swage; both it and the core seater were options RCBS offered as the nuances needed for accuracy were discovered by the benchresters and brought into the art of bullet swaging. The varmint hunter who couldn't buy bullets because of wartime restrictions would just have the bullet swage and the .22 shell ironer. After the war, Huntington offered commercial jackets, so most customers just bought the swage and the associated punches. Your guy probably had the core seater because it was less stressful to split the swaging operation into seating and point forming than to do the whole operation at once.

With your permission, I'd like to post your pictures in the bullet swage section of the Antique Reloading Tool Collectors' Association website. There's a little of the background there for the Rock Chuck Bullet Swage. They were made by hand, in batches, and it looks like every batch, at least, had different characteristics. The capstan head could be narrow or full diameter; other variants were rings (or lack thereof) turned in the capstan head, patent numbers there or not, "R.C.B.S. Co" stamped or rolled here and there or upside down, numbers or letters...the list hasn't ended, for sure. If yours has "Patent Pending" or "Patent Applied For," that would be a variant I've not seen yet, and an indication you might have an early one.

You should have two lengths of punches for your bullet die. One presses the core and jacket up into the Swage to form the point. Then you take the capstan head off, replace the punch with the longer one, and push the formed bullet out of the bottom part, which stays in your press at the adjustment you set. A slight ring may be visible at the parting line of the die. You can run the bullet back through the lower part of the Swage to iron this out. Be sure to line the red marks up on the two parts when you screw them together; the interrupted thread has to start the same way each time.

As you might infer, home bullet swaging back then was a slow operation, not for the weak or impatient. I wouldn't doubt that you might have to adjust your rim ironer up and down to get each jacket. People took time to do things back then.

You have a real piece of history there. Fred Huntington started the Rock Chuck Bullet Swage Company in the '40's, selling copies of the die set he invented because he couldn't buy varmint bullets during the war. He named the bullet swage after his favorite target, the Western marmot or rock chuck, and his company after the die. He invented the O-frame, compound linkage combination swaging and loading press so his customers could make bullets without wearing themselves out and breaking or springing their "C" frame and "H" frame loading presses. Then he started making loading dies, because his press made resizing and case forming much easier, and gradually added powder measures, scales and all the other accessories. Ten years into the business, he ran the numbers and found the only part of the operation that wasn't making any money was the bullet swaging dies, so he dropped them. Now, RCBS, Inc., is a giant company that makes everything for the reloader--except bullet swage dies, which was its first product, and for which the company is named. I suspect a lot of people don't even know what the initials RCBS stand for.

And full marks to the guys on this site, and the other diemakers scattered around, for being able to keep their operations afloat and even to deliver their products in a timely manner. They are doing something the head of the largest business catering to the shooter and reloader couldn't do.

[.30harris]

Wow! Thanks! You're more than welcome to post them up.

[onomrbil]

I also have an RCBS de-rim die, but mine has a top ejector puncg. There were several designs, apparently. The actual bullet swages used a two-piece punch: one to form the bullet and a shorter one that was then run into the die once the top ogive section was removed to push the finished bullet out. If you have a copy of Phil Sharp's book on reloading there are detailed instructions on the use of the bullet swages.