Thoughts on Finnish 'D' throated barrels

[Ken in Iowa]

I have several 1940s vintage Finn rifles. All were originally chambered and throated for the long, heavy D166 bullet.

For reduced recoil fun, it's time to try cast Boolits. A fellow board member, Texas Sako recommended the NOE 311331. I bought one that makes beautiful Boolits .313" on the bands and .302" on the nose. These look ideal in the 7.62x54r case and should shoot well in Russian barrels.

I also bought an NOE 311284 PB/GC combination for my Krags. With isotope alloy, The GC drops at .3135" and the PB at .314". Both have .299" noses.

The 'D' throated Finns that I have checked have throats in the .314" area. The one that I am currently working up has a .314" throat with a slight taper and a .299" bore. A dummy round looks quite promising when I compare it to the chamber cast.

I should run a batch of .311284 Boolits with a bit harder alloy and see if they drop a bit fatter. It should make an interesting experiment shooting these.

What do your Finns like?

[9w1911]

I am trying to pick a few boolits for my new Finn.

[Outpost75]

In my M39 I use NOE's clone of #314299 with 16 grs. of #2400

[Kraschenbirn]

My 'pet' Mosin is 1938 Tula 91/30 with a Finn 'SA' inspector stamp and a 'D' chamber marking (Winter War capture?) and it likes the Lee 312-185 sized to .3145 over 19 gr of 2400.

Bill

[1johnlb]

Had my Finn m39 out Friday night going thru my designs, looking for ones that fit and fill the throat. My NOE 314299 left the gc 3/4ths the way down the neck which was my closest 30 to touch the troat, all my other thirties are under 180 to 175 grains and wouldn't even begin to touch rifling. I sized down the 326471 that definitely fit the throat but put the gc about a 1/4 inch down in the boiler room.
Saturday morning I loaded these with 22-28 grs imr4064 and a .6gr fluff of dacron. Both alloys had a ring to them, the 314299 was 14#s coww and 4#s mono, 326471 was 16#s coww 2#s mono and 1# my copper babbit. The 326471 put 2, 5 shoot groups at 2 inch at 24 and 26 grs. The 314299 fared a bit better with the 28gr load putting 4 under a inch and 1 flyer opening the group up to about 2 1/2. The 326471 was seated to touch the rifling and actually took a bit of the camming force to seat them when chambered and the 314299 were seated with the gc at the neck shoulder area which would have put it back about a 1/8 th of a inch from the rifling. These were shot at 115 yds with a 1945 Sako barreled m39 mint bore.
I will definitely be visiting the 314299 and 28 gr 4064 load again.

[Frank46]

I've a Finn model 27 with probably the nicest bore I have ever seen on a moisin. Slugging the bore got me .3115 and since I normally size .002 over the bore diameter .3135 was my start with the 314299 wheel weights and 2% tin. Now as you know lyman doesn't make a sizer in that size. I had one in .313 but must have been made on a monday or friday as it had numerous rings inside it. Stuck it in the lathe and reamed it out with a .313 chucking reamer. Then polished it up with 400 & 600 grit silicon carbide paper. That left me with the .3135 on the money. Javelina lube, hansen cartridge cases,win LP primer,20.0 grains IMR 4759 estimated 1600 FPS and 2" groups when my eyes cooperate. Don't remember the OAL of a loaded round but I seat with the gas check even with the bottom of the case neck. I was recently gifted a Finn m39 and soon as I pulled the bolt my heart sank. Light coating of rust from corrosive ammo. The only thing I can say about the barrel is that you can see light out the other end. It's that bad. The really sad thing is that this was an almost mint condition rifle. bluing and stock are beautiful. Frank

[CHeatermk3]

I've had good results with a Lyman 314299 and AA5744 in one of my M39s but I quit using 5744 because of metering issues--Anyway +1 for the 314299.

Alloy is Lino or WDWW.

[Motor]

A timely post. We shot another 100 rounds of sub-sonic 54R today. I use the Lee 160gr 2R TL. I use 6gr of Bullseye. I don't size the boolits I shoot them as cast. No this load is no tack driver but it's accurate enough to have meaningful 50 yard competition using a 8" pistol swinger (steel target).

I have also used the same boolit cast at 16bhn and gas checked to shoot 1850f/s. This load uses 16gr of Unique and has shot 5 shot groups under an inch at 50 yards. It's down range accuracy seems good to. Standard clay pigeons out to 200 yards are possible after getting the elevation dialed in.

The rifle(s) used are M39s. My 91-30 does well with them too. It's kinda the main reason I shoot them as cast. It has a .313+ groove diameter. The Finns don't mind the boolits being a little bit big.

Motor

[Patrick56]

Today I tried my 28-30 with some Lee 309 160gr bullets on a 4"x4" pine stump. I used 41,6gr of N135 behind the bullets. When inspecting the result, I found out that the gas check had separated from the bullet before impact and made a hole beside the bullet hole. New to the use of gc on bullets, I wonder is this normal? Is this related to the fact that the bullet could be on the small side?

[CHeatermk3]

How far away were you from the stump?

[Ola]

Patrick. GC should stick on the bullet. When you put them on, do they stick on the bullet shank before crimping?

[Patrick56]

How far away were you from the stump?

5 meters!

[dualsport]

I've a Finn model 27 with probably the nicest bore I have ever seen on a moisin. Slugging the bore got me .3115 and since I normally size .002 over the bore diameter .3135 was my start with the 314299 wheel weights and 2% tin. Now as you know lyman doesn't make a sizer in that size. I had one in .313 but must have been made on a monday or friday as it had numerous rings inside it. Stuck it in the lathe and reamed it out with a .313 chucking reamer. Then polished it up with 400 & 600 grit silicon carbide paper. That left me with the .3135 on the money. Javelina lube, hansen cartridge cases,win LP primer,20.0 grains IMR 4759 estimated 1600 FPS and 2" groups when my eyes cooperate. Don't remember the OAL of a loaded round but I seat with the gas check even with the bottom of the case neck. I was recently gifted a Finn m39 and soon as I pulled the bolt my heart sank. Light coating of rust from corrosive ammo. The only thing I can say about the barrel is that you can see light out the other end. It's that bad. The really sad thing is that this was an almost mint condition rifle. bluing and stock are beautiful. Frank

Don't give up on that nasty bore. I found a couple Finns for cheap. They had been shot with corrosive ammo and not cleaned. Looked real bad. After a lot of work they look pretty good now and shoot just fine.

[Patrick56]

At least the time it took me to put them in the Lee sizing die. I have to check the design and see if the GC has any "lips".

[Patrick56]

The gas check used was the Gator GC .30cal. It should have a lip that "bites" in the bullet.

[CHeatermk3]

Patrick56-
You didn't say what size sizer die you used but it would need to be tight enough to crimp the check onto the GC shank portion of your boolit. if the casting is small enough the check may not be crimped on.

If you look closely at the check(which should kinda snap onto the shank) before , and then after you put it through the sizing die, you should see that, before sizing the check will be slightly open around it's top, similar to an expanded case mouth with a bullet seated, before being crimped, and after going thru the sizer it should be pressed into or flush with the gc shank. If it is not then you need either a smaller sizer (at .309 you are most likely already small for bore) or, more likely a fatter boolit that better fits your rifle's bore(have you slugged it yet??) that will also necessitate a different, correct sizing die to better fit your bore/groove dimensions.

[Patrick56]

CHeatermk3, the sizer was a Lee .309, as I bought it a time ago for my Winnie AE in 30-30 Win. I have not slugged the 28-30, so I don´t know what size the bore is for real. Probably the bore did not support the gc properly and the gc separated when the bullet did leave the muzzle. This was only a test to see how the "Pystykorva" shoots with boolits. Have to do the same test with my 39 also. At the moment I am a little short of Boxer primed cases.