More PID wiring help needed

[waksupi]

I read so many threads here trying to figure out the wiring on this, I'm dizzy. Anyway, I'm not having good luck trying to do the job, and would like to ask for some help.

Lights come on, but the pot doesn't heat up. Here is how I have it wired at the time.

Attachment 148239

Attachment 148240

Attachment 148241
Any suggestions?

[edctexas]

I can't make out your drawing as it seems too small for me to read. What PID unit do you have? You seem to show a relay and and what might be an SSR. Not sure why?

You can test the PID by replacing the POT with a medium power lamp (40-100W). Set the desired temp (the process variable) to just above room temp. The lamp should come on if the Thermocouple (TC) temp is below the desired temp. If you warm up the TC, the lamp should go out.

If the TC goes down in temp as you heat it, it is wired backwards. Reverse the leads and try again. These are all the simple tests for now. Could you make a bigger diagram and either PM me of post it?

Ed C Registered Professional Engineer MSEE and amateur radio op.

[waksupi]

I got the PID unit from Ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/261286976034. I think the seller may be a member here. PM sent.

[bangerjim]

EvilBay listing indicates this comes with a PT-100 RDT (100 ohm) NOT a type K T/C (thermocouple). Did you order it with a type K? You cannot just swap input devices without programming the ontroller differently.

An RTD has no polarity, a TC does.

[Retumbo]

From the uuuu on the read out I would say you have issues with the thermocoupel / rtd / thermistor

[Mike W1]

It looks like you have a Mypin TA4-SNR PID. Have one myself and your signal leads to the SSR should be 3&4 not 7&8. I just looked at the "instructions" from mine and they do show a Input Signal Selection parameter which your link said was preset for just that input. However I couldn't tell from a quick google search a whole lot that meant anything to me about a PT-Sensor. Obviously it's different than a K type but the Mypin drawing doesn't specify anything about hooking one up.

Double check that your parameter is set at PT100. Hook the TC to 7&8 and get your signal leads from the PID to the SSR on 4&5. Normally both the signal leads and the TC are polarity sensitive.

My guess is a PT-Sensor wires the same way as a K type.

Let us know if that helps. Your display looks to me like mine do when the TC isn't plugged in.

[Yodogsandman]

The PT100 probe should be hooked up differently. #7- Blue wire, #8- Red wire, #9- jumper wired to #8, #10- Blue wire.

Power in is shown as #1 and #2

Signal wires are shown on #3 and #4. The #3 (-) of the PID goes to the #4 (-) of the SSR. The #4 (+) of the PID goes to the #3(+) of the SSR.

I would also run the #2 wire on the SSR straight to the #2 "pot out" terminal of the terminal strip. But, I can't quite see which is + and -.

Check photo #3 as shown in the eBay listing for verification of wiring hook up locations.

[bangerjim]

It looks like you have a Mypin TA4-SNR PID. Have one myself and your signal leads to the SSR should be 3&4 not 7&8. I just looked at the "instructions" from mine and they do show a Input Signal Selection parameter which your link said was preset for just that input. However I couldn't tell from a quick google search a whole lot that meant anything to me about a PT-Sensor. Obviously it's different than a K type but the Mypin drawing doesn't specify anything about hooking one up.

Double check that your parameter is set at PT100. Hook the TC to 7&8 and get your signal leads from the PID to the SSR on 4&5. Normally both the signal leads and the TC are polarity sensitive.

My guess is a PT-Sensor wires the same way as a K type.

Let us know if that helps. Your display looks to me like mine do when the TC isn't plugged in.

A PT100 does NOT wire the same as a TC. And an RTD is NOT polarity sensitive.

Note the wiring diagram ON THE SIDE of the controller on the evilbay site.

100 ohm (and 1K ohm) platinum RTD's use 3 wires ( normally) NOT 2 as a thermocouple.
A t/c generates a millivolt DC signal dependent on temp. An RTD varies in resistance dependent on temp and does NOT put out a MV signal. The 3rd wire is for lead length compensation and accuracy. You can wire them up with 2 wires if you know which 2 to use!!! You will have ~100 ohms across two of them and a dead short across the other one to one of the others. Look at the wiring diagram.....it tells you all you need to know to be successful....along with which terminals to use.

I do this for a living.

bangerjim

[KenH]

Listen to Banger Jim - he does it for a living, and I did before retiring. No point in me writing any instructions, Jim has them written. I'm just confirming Jim's info.

Ken H>

[Mike W1]

I'd listen to Jim & Ken. I still don't know what's different about a PT-Sensor versus K type versus RTD but they apparently do. I'd think the side of your PID would have something similar to this, a photo of a K type.


The Mypin "instructions" with my unit don't show the PT however I see the photo does!

[waksupi]

I specified the K type tc, so should be good on that account. I will need to absorb what you have all told mr and draw it out, to be surevI understand where I'm heading. Thanks for the input so far.

[bangerjim]

To determine if your thermal element is a PT100 RTD or type K TC, take your DVM and measure the resistance.

Disconnect the element B4 measuring to get a read of it rather than the input circuitry of the controller!

If an ohm or so (litterally a dead short), you have a type K TC.

If around 100 ohms, you have an RTD.

Simple as that. Do not be afraid of it....this is not rocket science....just simple common industrial electronic instrumentation.

I do not know if that vendor supplies 3 wire RTD's (they SHOULD!) but your DVM will tell you.



"A" and "B" are the RTD element (normally). "B' " is the lead length compensation. Note you have to short between 8 and 9.

banger

[Yodogsandman]

I have a MYPIN TA4 and hooked the type K probe wires to #7 and #8 on the PID unit.

[Mike W1]

Well I've learned a lot this time around thanks to bangerjim. Didn't even realize those things were available but it seems the original poster ordered the K type so it's 7&8 for the TC. But we've all learned how to tell the difference between the 2 types thanks to Jim!

Personally I was about to have withdrawal symptoms with the site closed down long as it was. Read that as not that much of a life!

[g5m]

I got the PID unit from Ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/261286976034. I think the seller may be a member here. PM sent.

It looks like those are prewired/connected from the listing.

[waksupi]

It looks like those are prewired/connected from the listing.

He just wired that up to show it working, it didn't come wired. I hope to get back to this project and get it figured out this week. I need a Wiring for Dummies book. One that says run THIS wire to THAT terminal. Too many conflicting things it seems. The squiggly little abbreviations and such in all the descriptions and instructions I have seen are totally worthless to me, as I don't speak that language any better than I do Mandarin Chinese.

[bangerjim]

He just wired that up to show it working, it didn't come wired. I hope to get back to this project and get it figured out this week. I need a Wiring for Dummies book. One that says run THIS wire to THAT terminal. Too many conflicting things it seems. The squiggly little abbreviations and such in all the descriptions and instructions I have seen are totally worthless to me, as I don't speak that language any better than I do Mandarin Chinese.

Unfortunately for you and others wanting to jump on the techno band wagon of digital process controllers, that "language" is the standard of today. Just follow the wiring schematics line by line if you do not have the technical prowess to inherently understand what it is for, and all will be good.

I started working with 3 mode process control technology back in the early 70's and learned the "PID" functions on pneumatic controllers! (try that on a simple tiny lead melting pot!) Then transitioned to analog controllers. And finally into the microprocessor-based controllers and PLC's of today.

Glad you got it up and running! Now you need to address the auto tune fuzzy logic to get the controller to function properly. If AT is turned on, the controller will self-learn over a period of time.

[g5m]

He just wired that up to show it working, it didn't come wired. I hope to get back to this project and get it figured out this week. I need a Wiring for Dummies book. One that says run THIS wire to THAT terminal. Too many conflicting things it seems. The squiggly little abbreviations and such in all the descriptions and instructions I have seen are totally worthless to me, as I don't speak that language any better than I do Mandarin Chinese.

Well, I can certainly relate to that! That's why I asked in one thread about which members here were making and selling pids.

[SWAGE-X]

Quick question about wiring PID's
Is there a "standard" or code as to the color of wire used in wiring a PID?
Or does everyone do their own thing/use what you have?
Thnx Lots
Bob

[waksupi]

Things seem to be working okay now, I may have some programming questions eventually. Apparently the instructions come in either Sanskrit, or ancient Greek, neither of which am I fluent in.

I do thank you guys for the help!