sticky checks on die

[tomo]

Hello folks,
I started to make gas checks with checkmaker from Pat Marlins.
I bought a piece of copper and aluminum sheet with thickness of 0.3mm(0.012") and 0.4mm(0.016") respectively.
It needs power to punch (cut) copper disk out of die. It was relatively easy to punch aluminum than copper even though aluminum is thicker than another.

Anyway, I have a problem with aluminum disk. When I form aluminum round disk into dish shape (complete gas check), it sticks on upper male die as attached picture.
This phenomenon makes efficiency down and takes much time to proceed. It didn't occur if with copper disk. What is wrong with aluminum?

[TreeKiller]

Some times you have to polish the part where
is sticking to with 800 or 1000 wet or dry paper. The AL leaves a ruff cut. Try putting the disk in other side up. Check with Pat first.

Dan

[tomo]

Thank you, Dan.
I did only wipe dust off and didn't use any sand paper. I will try them at next batch.

[FrontSite]

Some times you have to polish the part where
is sticking to with 800 or 1000 wet or dry paper. The AL leaves a ruff cut. Try putting the disk in other side up. Check with Pat first.

Dan

I followed Pat's suggestion and had the punch part buffed to a "shine" and eliminated the problem. No abrasives were used just a "rag" buffing wheel. Also examine the forming part that there is no alum slivers caught in underneath the "ejector" or the bottom of the forming cup.

[tomo]

I didn't take care of down side part. I will do clean them.
Thank you, FrontSite.

[PatMarlin]

What caliber is that?

The male forming end diameter may be to large for that metal.

The baseline I use for an average metals diameter on gas check shank dies is .014" and less. Dies will work with .016, but not always. Depends on the metal.

Try rotating the female die in different positions. If that doesn't work, since you are in Japan, and if you are sticking with that metal, you can to hone down the male forming end a little until it's working for that metal, by chucking the die in a drill and fine sand paper, then polish.

The copper is cutting harder most likely due to it's hardnesss.

These metals run all over the place in temper hardness, so that's why you really need to try before you invest in metal. Not all metal is suitable for forming gas checks. Even typical .009-.010 AL flashing found in hardware stores can be hard as a rock. Hard to cut disks, and can tear making gas checks.

Patience, as with cast shooting will find the right combination that works for your needs.

Please don't hesitate to email me for help..

Pat...

[tomo]

Hello Pat,

I am using 30cal. The check which sticks on male die, are made of aluminum and its thickness is 0.4mm (0.016"). It might be too thick to form?
I can buy other thickness metal, thinner than that, instead of honing down. Now I am making coke can two-ply checks instead of 0.4mm sticky aluminum.
Do you think it works?

Anyway, you are receiving other order from Japan soon (or already). I talked him about your forming die.
Thank you for nice product just we want.

Thanks,

tomo

[PatMarlin]

Hi Tomo,

I tested and sent you some checks formed with your dies I believe, and the aluminum checks were out of .014 Amerimax aluminum, and the copper checks were out of .010 thickness.

Would not suggest doubling soda cans. If they hold and shoot well, then why not?

99% of the time, dies work for users right out of the box with the metals they have.

Sometimes not, and some folks get frustrated and want to give up. They email me and I get down to discovering the issue and get them going.

Point is you have to realize, you are now manufacturing your own product. It can take some experimentation to find your combination of metals and work process to get rolling so just like Casting, patience grasshopper- experiment.

Also- there are no hard and fast rules. I've gotten very good accuracy with .010 copper. Guys will say that's to thin, and not thick enough metal... well they don't see the check size to my cast bullet. And aren't sitting next to me at the range. There's really no need to go thicker than .014 unless you have an undersized shank, or a mold not casting fat enough, so you can't size down where you need to be. Just a bunch of variables.

Pat...

[PatMarlin]

Also, I may add that I continue to improve the production process on dies. Not changing the design but improve the machining process.

Just this week, after making these dies since 2008- I had a "Why in the hell didn't I think of that YEARS ago moment", and figured out (2) so simple but ground breaking improvements. I won't go into what they are, but definitely improvements that enhance their performance, and enable me to get more dies out the door daily.

It never ends in this business.

Pat

[Retumbo]

What? You going to make single stroke gas check makers now...

[tomo]

If 0.4mm(0.016") is too thick, I can buy 0.3mm (0.012") copper or/and aluminum at a local hardware shop.
But when I use copper with 0.3mm thick, it was hard to cut disk from a strip.
It will be easy if the copper strip is annealed?

[Sagebrush7]

NO he can't! Paco Kelly has the patent!

What? You going to make single stroke gas check makers now...

[runfiverun]

softer material is generally easier to work with.
it however may stretch and tear rather than cut cleanly.

[Buck Neck It]

A little lube can't hurt. Try a light spritz of wd40, just a little bit can work wonders.

Perforated aluminum sheet is always greasy from the lube they use in the punch machine. This is how the big guys do it, and they don't clean it before they sell it to you.

[tomo]

Thanks for ideas. I have tried to use WD40 but it didn't work.

I could not get perfect so far but dry lube (graphite powder for neck sizing) works 80%.
And rotating under die to change relative angle with upper one can get more better result (no-stick).
But they are not perfect. I am going to use more thinner strip.