Naked swaging? (224 lead boolits?)

[ohland]

I went thru some swagin' posts, the stuff on core moulds and cut off tools is apropos, but all I want is to make 45 grain round nose (or something near to it) boolits for a 22 Hornet. As much as casting is fun, production of 225415s is slow.

Knurl or cannelure for lubrication?

Round or RFN? Is there a profile that is difficult to machine for, and therefor undesireable?

Speed from 1,000 - 1,600 fps. Plain base is fine, the 22 Hornet has a neck long enough to seat the boolit so the base is not below the neck.

[guywitha3006]

I am fairly new to swaging myself, but I will do my best. A round nose should be no problem to make (just takes patience and a bit of... ok a lot of spare change) to make the particular point/nose profile you would like. If speed is your goal get a core swage die to uniform up the slug of lead and just use cut wire.

As far as cannelure vs knurl, a cannelure is too small for adequate lube, they are meant to be a crimp groove so the bullet does not move in the case. The knurl will give you a lot of surface area and actually expand it just a touch creating a better gas seal. Another option may be to powder coat the swaged "naked" probably much cheaper (especially with shake and bake method) then buying a dedicated tool for canneluring/knurling (usually one tool can do both with different attachments.

[tja6435]

I'd do Hi-Tek coating for lube. It'd save the work of knurling the bullets

[ohland]

I'd do Hi-Tek coating for lube. It'd save the work of knurling the bullets

So... the ardous work of the "Wheel of Pain" makes it worth dropping more bucks on Hi-Tek, and the additional steps to apply it? Sounds like simplicity is taking a back seat.

Cores... Buying lead wire, or pre-made cores, or casting cores. For wire, we need a core cutter, how precise does it need to be, since we're cutting lead for a glorified rimfire bullet...

Swaging seems the simple part. Think of something on the lines of a PB 225438, same weight.

Knurling and Lee Alox, canneluring and lubing, or hi-tek (spraying and heating, plus prayer?)

[joesig]

I As much as casting is fun, production of 225415s is slow.

There's no comparison in speed between a 5 hole NOE mold and swaging. If you want more speed, just get more holes. If you want to experiment and have flexibility, swaging is the ticket.

The plus side of swaging is your base will always be perfect.

The naked boolits I swaged (30 cal) I used either 45/45/10 or Red Rooster as it came from the die. I just haven't had a chance to try PC yet. There are already enough steps with swaging.

[ohland]

The plus side of swaging is your base will always be perfect.

The naked boolits I swaged (30 cal) I used either 45/45/10 or Red Rooster as it came from the die.

I like the ideal of good bases without the drama of casting.

Were these nekkid boolits smooth sided? Then stuck through a .001 larger than swaged lube die? Trying to grok applying lube to the exterior, and it is as clear as beer goggles...

[Sasquatch-1]

I don't know if this will help or not. If you are going for production speed it will not. I take the 44 cal bullets I cast run them through my lube sizer and then run them through a swage die. I good portion of the lube remains in the groves.

[longbow]

I'm a bit confused. Are you planning on swaging alloyed lead?

If you want to run up to 1600 FPS I would think you would need a reasonably hard alloy. No experience reloading .22 here or with swaging but I have to think that .22 boolits will act like most other small bore boolits casting would give more flexibility with alloying to get the velocities you want.

Like the man said, if you want more speed, get more holes.

I'll follow this to see how it turns out. I am curious.

Longbow

[ohland]

I'm a bit confused. Are you planning on swaging alloyed lead? If you want to run up to 1600 FPS I would think you would need a reasonably hard alloy. Longbow

Need some ice with that Longbow? Couldn't resist...

I gave the 1,000 - 1,600 bracket so as to give readers an ideal of what the boolit would need to do. I always start off wildly positive, then as cost and difficultly become clearer, I recalibrate.

I do have pure lead avalible, my Lee 4-20 has been moping about since the Pro-Melt came in. Now that I have an actual ingot mould, I can empty the Lee, clean it, and refill with pure lead.

My wishful goal is subsonic 45 or so grain boolits. At this time, something of the shape of a 225438, plain base, on top of about 3 grains of Unique, should make the 22 Hornet a quiet gun for squirrels.

[longbow]

Certainly subsonic would make a difference. I just wasn't sure you could swage anything more than a tin lead alloy without problems and I am pretty sure you would need a reasonably hard alloy for 1600 FPS especially without gas check in a .22.

For me anyway, I find small bore (.30 cal.) harder to get to perform than large bore (.44 on up) without leading and gas cutting issues. I used to load up my .45-70's (Marlin 1895 and Siamese Mauser converted) to max loads with PB boolits and no problems but .30 cal. was an eye opener after that and anything but mild loads required gas checks.

Like I said, curious as much as anything.

Not sure why but I have always wanted a .22 Hornet. I think it would make a terrific little plinker and small game gun and a great replacement for rimfire guns. I do not have swaging equipment so I would cast anyway. One day maybe.

Good luck and I will be following this to see where you get to.

Longbow

[runfiverun]

you can swage a naked core into shape.
I have done it.
I also used a LR primer as a slightly small gas check of sorts.
tumble lube is enough if you keep the velocity's down.

[firefly1957]

ohland do you have swage dies? If not they are quite expensive I have an old set of unknown origin i got because someone did not know how to use them. They are made to make Jacketed bullet using a lead core in a spent 22 rimfire case . I have also swaged just the core i found if i used the powder coated core it swaged well but shot poorly because of a burr at the base from my dies. Next i discovered i could use a spent large primer with the anvil removed as a gas check it was bumped to .224 went the core was swaged.

[firefly1957]

These and my .224 swage dies i suspect they are made by Pacific but am not sure.

[rbuck351]

If you're wanting to make a bunch of 225438 pb boolits without a lot of work and fast I would get a 5 cav NOE mold and a star sizer. Now if you insist on having them swaged ( you will already have a pretty good boolit and lubed) pick up an old Swag-O-Matic and make your self a set of dies. It will easily swage an acww boolit into any shape you can make a die for. I'm using mine to make an 85gr .312 half jacket SWC for my 7.62x25 using 50BMG primer cups with the anvil removed and annealed as the jacket and a 257420 acww boolit for the core. Although the Star sizer wouldn't be necessary it would speed things up. I have been considering swaging some of my cast rifle boolits to see if there is a noticeable difference in accuracy. Too many projects and not enough time.

[Sitzme]

I bought a Lee bator mold and was not getting good results at first. I dry tumble PC'd them and installed gas checks .225 dia. Kind of a shotgun pattern. Part of the problem was the round nose forcing the bullet to extend into the case. There might have been issues with GC straightness due to the PC also.

In an attempt to remedy this I ran them into my point form die to get the 6S profile and it probably did a good job of squaring the base also. The quick result was a couple of .4-.5 groups at 40 yds with my Savage Axis with the tupperware stock. I only loaded 10 and was in a hurry but the process from cast to finished boolit was fairly quick so another 200 are in process this evening. Not sure when I can get out and shoot at 100 though. H4895 17.8 gr and it is the first load I tried so I have hope that this can be improved.