410 reloading

[ArcticGoose]

This is great information! I had heard about using the 444 Marlin brass. Any more information about this would be great. How does the length work? I like hearing little tricks like with the gas check. How does this brass compare to using MagTech brass? Is there a better brass out there to use? Looking forward to finding out more.

[rbuck351]

I use the 444 Marlin brass in a single shot savage and a Savage OU 22 410 I haven't used MagTech so I can't compare. I use the upside down 44cal GC over powder then a single card wad then shot and a thin card wad over shot glued in place with silicone. After sizing once I don't size again. The normal 410 shot cup takes up enough room I can't get a full 3/4 oz loaded and it fits quite loosely. I use either #8 or #9 shot prefering #9. The pattern is thick enough to hit sparrows at 25yds and that's far enough for the little guy. The two guns I am using are tough enough to handle a lot more pressure than a normal break open shotgun might and the 444 cases show no pressure signs so be careful working up loads for this one especially in a weaker shotgun action. I don't know how the length would work or if they would feed well in a repeater. The 444 brass works really well for what I'm doing and should last indefinitely. Also they can be reloaded very easily with a couple of improvised punches and a powder and shot dipper.

[220]

Is there a better brass out there to use? Looking forward to finding out more.

Yes

If your going to form brass 410 shells the best place to start is 9.3x74r brass. When formed you will have a true 3" brass shell, I only use brass with BP loads as I have a mec for loading plastic hulls. 3/4oz of shot is possible with BP you could probably go close to 7/8oz with smokeless.
I did look at forming from 303 but it would have required trimming the rim for both diameter and thickness to chamber in my gun.
I purchased one box of magtec 410 brass and never again it was ****, oversize primer pockets to the extent that primers would fall out if you tapped the rim against something hard.
I would be past 10 reloads with my formed 9.3 brass, they got a little tight to chamber after about 7 loads so I simply ran them about 1/2" into a 308 die to size the case mouth and solved the problem.

[trapper9260]

Yes

If your going to form brass 410 shells the best place to start is 9.3x74r brass. When formed you will have a true 3" brass shell, I only use brass with BP loads as I have a mec for loading plastic hulls. 3/4oz of shot is possible with BP you could probably go close to 7/8oz with smokeless.
I did look at forming from 303 but it would have required trimming the rim for both diameter and thickness to chamber in my gun.
I purchased one box of magtec 410 brass and never again it was ****, oversize primer pockets to the extent that primers would fall out if you tapped the rim against something hard.
I would be past 10 reloads with my formed 9.3 brass, they got a little tight to chamber after about 7 loads so I simply ran them about 1/2" into a 308 die to size the case mouth and solved the problem.

If you do not mind me asking what do you use to form the brass with? Or can you just use the 308 die. Thank you

[richhodg66]

After reading this thread and googling a few things, I ound an Ed Harris article about brass shot shells. I'll try to find it again.

Strange that I'm interested. I sort of had a surprise acquisition of a little Iver Johnson single shot .410 a couple of years ago. Never had a desire to own one, but it was free and needed a home. Anyway, it's a pretty little thing and graceful in the hands, I'd like to take it squirrel hunting but .410 loads are few and expensive. This brass shotshell method sounds easy enough and with minimal outlay of equipment.

[Good Cheer]

Interesting info.
I'm looking into whether a .410 with brass shells can have the barrel shallow rifled to shoot paper patched boolits with black.

[atr]

Guys...Many thanks for this thread
I like using my .410 / raccoons and grouse and the idea of brass shells sounds like an interesting reloading challenge

[trapper9260]

Here is a link I found and like to know what you all think of what it say.
http://www.endtimesreport.com/410reloading.html

[220]

If you do not mind me asking what do you use to form the brass with? Or can you just use the 308 die. Thank you

I loaded and fire formed them, being a bottle neck case the first loading need a different procedure to loading a normal brass 410 the same applies to forming from 303 brass.
While getting powder and shot into the case is easy enough you cant use a standard plastic or felt wad due to the reduced diameter of the neck. My solution was to use a foam earplug as the wad, roll it between your fingers like you would to fit in your ear and slip it through the neck over the powder charge. It will expand to case diameter and you can then add your shot. I also used rice as a filler along with lead shot to bring the load almost to the case mouth and then used a wad of soap to seal them.
Just pushed the loaded case into a bar of soap.

I was a bit unsure of where to start with powder charges so went with published 1/2oz load data and adjusted my shot/rice volumes to give me a nearly full case at 1/2oz. No idea what pressures were but took 2-3 loadings for them to fully blow out to nice straight sided shells. To me it almost looked like the shot/rice was swaging the case out to chamber size more than pressure blowing them out as would be the case fire forming brass in a wildcat rifle chamber.

Loading after they are formed is simple, knock out the primer, I use a lee 30cal decapper and base and a hammer.
Priming is easy, appropriate sized shell holder and your preferred priming tool or on a press.
Weigh your powder charge and put it in, for wads I use felt wads available commercially from a number of sources (I got mine from track of the wolf) you can seat them with a pen/pencil or a bit of dowel. Dump you shot charge in and then overshot card and glue in place. Anywhere that has felt wads will also have overshot cards, nitro cards etc.
You could make your own wads and cards but for what they cost I couldn't be bothered, just remember for loading brass 410 you don't want 410 sized wads and cards designed for plastic 410 hulls but .430 as the brass shells have a larger internal size.

Shotgun pressures are low compared to most rifle/pistol loads so I haven't found a need to resize even after more than 10 reloads.
I did find a few that were a little tight to chamber after 7 or 8 loads but a bit of measuring showed it was only the case mouth that was a little oversized. Base diameter of 308 and 30/06 family of cartridges is almost identical to 410 mouth diameter. Running them 1/2" into the 308 die to resize just 1/2" down from the case mouth sorted the issue, I haven't had to do it again yet.

Once you have formed 410 brass cases really it is load shoot and reload again no need to size.

[220]

Hope this works should be a pic of 9.3x74r formed into 410

[footpetaljones]

Would anyone know the specific reason that shotgun pressure limits are much lower than pistol/rifle rounds?

This thread thread has me thinking about sticking a bullet on the end of a 9.3x74r case, hooking a Pressure Trace up to an old single shot, and seeing how far it can be pushed.

[220]

Would anyone know the specific reason that shotgun pressure limits are much lower than pistol/rifle rounds?

This thread thread has me thinking about sticking a bullet on the end of a 9.3x74r case, hooking a Pressure Trace up to an old single shot, and seeing how far it can be pushed.

My guess would be pressures are low because most shotguns evolved from muzzle loaders, 10,12 20 bore muzzle loaders etc evolved into BP loaded shot shells and when smokeless came along it was used to load to similar pressures as BP loads.
Works well enough no one has seen a need to develop a new shotgun, interesting a lot of single shot shotguns makers offer inexpensive single shot high intensity rifle chamberings on the same action.
The action is the same so they can obviously handle more pressure, a lot of shotguns seem to be made as a separate chamber section with barrels joined it may be a limiting factor in what pressures can safely be handled.

Do a search on youtube for "the little 410 that could" a couple of blokes trying to destroy a 410 by firing anything that can be chambered, 444, 454casual etc, the gun survived the lot

[trapper9260]

220 thank you for explain to me about it all.You made it easy to understand of what to do.Thank you for your help.

[qkdraw44]

hi all, just started loading 410 buck shot loads roll crimp 00 and 000 buck I am casting. the ballistic products manual does not give any 000 buck loads using multiple balls, only a one ball load. Most of the loads use lil gun powder so I purchased a pound. shooting for fun/ practice I have a bond arms derringer, Taurus judge and a m6 scout survival rifle. I also have a side x side Spanish 410. probably choked. looking for light to medium loads using multiple balls
HEALTHY AND SAFE NEW YEAR TO ALL

[Cap'n Morgan]

Would anyone know the specific reason that shotgun pressure limits are much lower than pistol/rifle rounds?

Shotguns don't need all that much pressure to get a decent payload up to an efficient speed while still maintaining a tolerable recoil. You could easily increase speed, but recoil would become nasty and the pattern will suffer as well due to deformed pellets.

Some useless information follows below. Don't read unless you're bored

Lead has been a no-no in Denmark for some twenty years and I shoot nothing but steel nowadays. Over the years the efficiency of the shells has improved dramatically as speed has been raised (steel shot will not deform during launch - about the only positive thing about it!)
My favorite is a 2-3/4" shell, 1-1/8 ounce shot #3 and a muzzle velocity of 1575 FPS. Pressure is a whopping 15000 PSI and recoil is... well, stiff!

In some wooden areas you're not allowed to use steel, but must use other non-toxic shot. Bismuth is not too bad, but at 3$ a bang the word gun-shy takes on a whole new meaning.

[jdjax64]

I loaded and fire formed them, being a bottle neck case the first loading need a different procedure to loading a normal brass 410 the same applies to forming from 303 brass.
While getting powder and shot into the case is easy enough you cant use a standard plastic or felt wad due to the reduced diameter of the neck. My solution was to use a foam earplug as the wad, roll it between your fingers like you would to fit in your ear and slip it through the neck over the powder charge. It will expand to case diameter and you can then add your shot. I also used rice as a filler along with lead shot to bring the load almost to the case mouth and then used a wad of soap to seal them.
Just pushed the loaded case into a bar of soap.

I was a bit unsure of where to start with powder charges so went with published 1/2oz load data and adjusted my shot/rice volumes to give me a nearly full case at 1/2oz. No idea what pressures were but took 2-3 loadings for them to fully blow out to nice straight sided shells. To me it almost looked like the shot/rice was swaging the case out to chamber size more than pressure blowing them out as would be the case fire forming brass in a wildcat rifle chamber.

Loading after they are formed is simple, knock out the primer, I use a lee 30cal decapper and base and a hammer.
Priming is easy, appropriate sized shell holder and your preferred priming tool or on a press.
Weigh your powder charge and put it in, for wads I use felt wads available commercially from a number of sources (I got mine from track of the wolf) you can seat them with a pen/pencil or a bit of dowel. Dump you shot charge in and then overshot card and glue in place. Anywhere that has felt wads will also have overshot cards, nitro cards etc.
You could make your own wads and cards but for what they cost I couldn't be bothered, just remember for loading brass 410 you don't want 410 sized wads and cards designed for plastic 410 hulls but .430 as the brass shells have a larger internal size.

Shotgun pressures are low compared to most rifle/pistol loads so I haven't found a need to resize even after more than 10 reloads.
I did find a few that were a little tight to chamber after 7 or 8 loads but a bit of measuring showed it was only the case mouth that was a little oversized. Base diameter of 308 and 30/06 family of cartridges is almost identical to 410 mouth diameter. Running them 1/2" into the 308 die to resize just 1/2" down from the case mouth sorted the issue, I haven't had to do it again yet.

Once you have formed 410 brass cases really it is load shoot and reload again no need to size.

Since you didn't say I assume you did not anneal the cases first? I annealed some 303 Bits and had a few that split and they did not come out as nice as your 9.3s did and I am thinking that I should not anneal them first.

Now I need to find some 9.3 brass.

[trapper9260]

Midsouth have some on sale i seen There banner is on here on the top.

[GhostHawk]

Well I have been playing some with .410 over the last year.

I did buy a box of the magtech .410 brass shells and I do recommend them.
I did also take some .303 british brass I was given, turned down the rims till they fit, expanded necks, annealed, and fireformed.

Fireforming was iffy, some loads did well, others not so much.

With brass shells plan on buying/making cutters to make your own cards, wads. Sizes are off from plastic so they don't work well.

I do happen to be sitting on a good stash of Red Dot so I have been using that. 10 grains seemed like a pretty serious thump on the ones I've tested. Most of the .303 british I have tried had a 40 caliber bullet loaded over wads and a card wad glued on top. Not incredibly accurate. But at close range would certainly kill most anything it hit.

While I have loads of shot in the magtech brass I have not shot or patterned any of them yet to know how well they would work.

I have been using milk carton boxes for card wads, seems to work well. I did buy a bag of nitro cards for over powder.

Ballistic products inc is a great source for magtech brass, wads, cards, and load info.

[charlie3tuna]

Has anyone here done this? MidwayUSA sells 405 Win. brass. In customer comments (about 6 or 7 down) a guy said he uses them for 3" 410 loads. Is this a hoax? I don't own a 410, but am interested in getting one.

[lar45]

Here is some Ballistic Products 410 buckshot load data

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/load08-21-09.htm

Load# 90820-1209 .410 (36-gauge) STOPPER
HULL: WIN-AA .410 3.00”
PRIMER: WIN209
PROPELLANT: Hodgdon Lil’ Gun 16.0 Grains
WAD: 12C41+STRETCH wad
SHOT: (4) OO buck (215 grains) in the stretch wad.
BUFFER: none
FOLD CRIMP: 6-point
Result: 10700 PSI 1390 FPS