Best speed for a 350 gr. in 45/70?

[stubert]

I am shooting a Marlin Guide gun in 45/70. I just bought an NOE 350 gr. gc. mold. Is there a best speed for a 350? I am thinking 1700 - 1800 fps. I will be deer hunting and poss. black bear ( if I see one) I know that to much velocity will ruin alot of meat, not to mention tenderizing the shoulder. I am using imr-3031 and am only looking for a 100 - 125 yd. load max.. I use a Williams fp on the back, and a fire sight up front. Thanks in advance, Stu

[osteodoc08]

Whatever you can handle and gives best accuracy. Velocity without accuracy means nothing. That said, mine do well around 1800 in the 350gr loads and 1600 in the 400gr loadings.

Remember you you lose some velocity with the shorter barrel and many of the test barrels are with 24" barrel length.

[Motard]

This are my takes with a chrony: 385 RNGC cast lihght load 1470 fps,
"" "" "" hot load 1738
310 Fmj FN light load 1700/1800
leverevolution 325 ftx factory rounds 1750/1800

As far as I know this caliber likes to fly slow and havvy

[missionary5155]

Greetings Stu
I do not have a Guide gun but do have a 1895 Marlin and several other 45-70 lever flippers. I do like your sight set up. That is what goes on my heavy thumpers in 336's and 1895. Sounds like a good hunt coming up. A good friend of mine lives in the NW corner of NY. Was walking home from deer hunting and 200 yards from home shot one of the largest Blackies taken in NY. All he had was a lowly 270 with 130 grainers. Bear died right there. Shot placement did the trick. But I still rib him about hunting with a "little girl's" rifle.

Boolit... Is this a nice large flat nose or a round nose ? I would flat nose a RN boolit or drill it HP.
Deer: anything over 1400 fps with a 350 grainer is going to coast through unless you take shots through the grill doors. I would also recommend using 50-50 with a dash of tin as most shots taken on deer are some where through the chest.

Bear : I would cast with WW and 2 % tin and go for about 1750 fps. Accuracy being the real control on speed. What are the real possibilities of seeing a bear ? Would there be time to slip one of these harder one's into the chamber ? Is popping a bear of higher priority ? If that last question is yes then load for bear and slay them corn crunchers with the bear busters. A FN 350 is going to drop a deer at any speed you hit it with. A bear you want as much "thwap" on that chest or shoulder as you can accurately shoot.

On tanks we loaded the main gun for the biggest meanest nasty target we might see. Anything less was just dead meat and we could always load a lesser second round for the finish shot or follow ups. That is how I would hunt if a bear was a real possibility and I was serious about a bear. Never under gun yourself when you can have the best in the tube and ready.
Mike in Peru

[JesterGrin_1]

As said many times the 45-70 Government moving out around 1300 FPS almost wiped out the Buffalo.

So in reality pick your powder and start at the bottom and work up till you like the accuracy and how it feels to you. Do not worry about speed as the bullet will do what needs done without a problem.

I use the Ranch Dog 350Gr RNFP/GC in my JM Marlin 1895 GS 45-70 Government and it is one fine shooting and hunting boolit.

[NSB]

As said many times the 45-70 Government moving out around 1300 FPS almost wiped out the Buffalo.

So in reality pick your powder and start at the bottom and work up till you like the accuracy and how it feels to you. Do not worry about speed as the bullet will do what needs done without a problem.

I use the Ranch Dog 350Gr RNFP/GC in my JM Marlin 1895 GS 45-70 Government and it is one fine shooting and hunting boolit.

I couldn't have said it any better.

[stubert]

That is the same mold I got from NOE, execpt I do not have the tl design, I have regular grease grooves. What is your load?

[JesterGrin_1]

That is the same mold I got from NOE, execpt I do not have the tl design, I have regular grease grooves. What is your load?

I am sorry but I have not used IMR-3031 in my 45-70 Government. The powder that is probably best used for the higher end loads according to Ranch Dog is H-322. And to be honest the loads I came up with were probably moving around 1900 FPS or so. Of which are a slobber knocker at the bench but I did not have excessive meat damage with that load on either Deer or Hog and I have taken hog with that load from a 10 or so pounder at 100 yards to a 350Lb Hog. But it all depends on how hard your boolits are.

I am currently going to try the Ranch Dog 350Gr RNFP/GC sized as recommended by Ranch Dog at .460 with 15.0Gr of Unique as it is a fun load and I believe will be good enough for hunting our small TEXAS Deer and Hog at a reasonable distance.

If you go to Ranch Dog Outdoors he still has his load information up on all of his boolit designs. So I would recommend to go to that web site and look up the powder you wish to try and reduce the powder charge by 10% or whatever is listed for reduction for a particular powder and start there. All of Ranch Dogs loads listed on his web site were taken from a Marlin for a particular round and his boolit designs and pressure tested with correct equipment. So I do not think you can beat the information he has listed for a Marlin.

Go Here http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/...oadnotes01.pdf

[T-Bird]

I'm with Jester, black powder velocity 45/70 load is good. I load my 1895 to 1375ish fps with the 330 Gould and take it when shots won't exceed 100yds. It sails thru every deer I've shot. Don't know about bear. I also have an RCBS (I think ) 350 gr flat nosed mould that I used to use at the same speed, but went with the HP Gould to try and get a better blood trail, though I never lost a deer and none ever ran far.Some of the places I hunt, once the deer runs 20 yds., you can't see them anymore. The only reason in my opinion to speed up the boolit is to flatten the trajectory. But at 100 yds, just sight the gun to this distance and you're good. 1375 fps is much easier on the shoulder, which means more practice shots. These big boolits will penetrate! Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[TXGunNut]

I've had very good luck with that boolit and rifle on deer and hogs. I run it around 1700-1800 as you plan to do so I think you're right on target. IMHO the RD boolits like to go fast and in keeping my missionary friend's thinking I want to be able to hammer the biggest hog that will cross my path...and luckily some nice big ones do just that from time to time. It doesn't waste any venison when that boolit @ around 1700 hits a little S TX deer. I don't waste much time tracking it, either.

[JesterGrin_1]

I don't waste much time tracking it, either.

Come on now tracking what tracking lol. I have never seen anyone mention tracking when the bullet hits the deer and they flop over lol.

[Ramjet-SS]

In my Encore rifle 45-70 I use a 330 Grain WFN GC and love the performance and accuracy of the that bullet loaded over 14.5 Grains of Unique. A the next best load that rifle likes is 26.0 grains of IMR4227. Each of those loads I use poly fiber over the powder. Sure I could load heavier but why do that when these loads have and are proven to take deer with regularity. Plus they are easy on me. If I was going after elk or moose then I would run that load of IMR4227 up to 30.0 grains.

[TXGunNut]

Come on now tracking what tracking lol. I have never seen anyone mention tracking when the bullet hits the deer and they flop over lol.

Have only had to track one critter shot with a 45-70; doe went into heavy brush, quit bleeding, took a hard left turn and died facing the other direction under a bush. Went thru a few flashlight batteries finding her! Never seen a deer act like that. Most are DRT with little meat damage.

[EOD3]

For a dear/black bear at 125 yards you don't need much velocity to get the job done. Work up a good accuracy load in the 14-16 hundred feet per second and go for the gold. A lung shot on a deer with a 350 grain bullet at anything like a thousand feet per second will whistle right on through. Unless the bear is a monster, it won't stand-up to a correctly placed bullet either. A little extra velocity for a comfort factor and you're on your way. Just my .02

[JesterGrin_1]

Have only had to track one critter shot with a 45-70; doe went into heavy brush, quit bleeding, took a hard left turn and died facing the other direction under a bush. Went thru a few flashlight batteries finding her! Never seen a deer act like that. Most are DRT with little meat damage.

Ok well as mentioned I have had one as well with the 45-70 but it was my fault as the boolits I used were so hard they could have been solid brass lol. They were made of Pure Lino with some added tin from some solder and water dropped in ice water lol. Yep I had ice in there lol. So of course the boolit just made a perfect .458 hole all the way through. And of course no blood shot meat lol.

[EOD3]

Dang Jester, you weren't making boolets, you was making anvils...

[JesterGrin_1]

Dang Jester, you weren't making boolets, you was making anvils...

Yes I know I think they were just a little to hard lol. But I did not know better at the time.

[Rick Hodges]

I have a MM mold that is similar to the Ranch Dog in profile. It weighs 385 gr. 15 BHN w/ gc. I start them at 1700 fps with H322. They give me a 150yd. point blank range with the Guide Gun. It is a decisive load in the guide gun...on both ends.

[Canuck Bob]

I carried a 444 for decades in griz country and shot from rabbit to moose. I liked the 265 gr Hornady FN and when I changed out to cast I went with a 285 grain. I never felt undergunned. I would consider anything above 1600 fps big game thump with a .45 350 grainer in your neck of the woods. If a rutting bull or mama griz was a possibility I'd crank it to 1800+ maybe. The lowly 303 Brit has dropped train loads of big blackies and moose up here.

It still amazes me when we have these talks and a 265 grain bullet at 2200 fps is considered light! Us big bore advocates sure like our bullets fat and heavy and I'm at the small end of that group. Comes from the firm knowledge that they work best that way!!! Your new combo will treat you right, nice choice on sighting as well.

[Clay M]

If you are going to hunt deer and black bear using 3031, just make it easy on yourself and the gun. Load down around 1400 fps. I used 42 grs of 3031 and a 400 gr bullet in a Sharps for years.