25-20 single shot info needed

[labradigger1]

I picked up a pretty nice rem rb no. 2 this weekend and it is chambered in 25-20. I assumed it was a 25-20 wcf but after research it appears it is probably a 25-20 ss. Great bore and patina.
As far as I can tell 25-20ss does not have a parent cartridge to form brass from. Research also tells me to stay away from Bertram brass and use Jamison instead.
My questions are,
1- rcbs sells 25-20 case forming dies, would I be correct to assume they would use 222/223 brass? I thought perhaps someone has a set and would know.
2- die sets are stupid expensive! The only quarter bore dies I own are 25-06. Being a single shot action I am thinking I may be able to use the crimp/seat die to seat and crimp and not size the brass. Would this be feasible?
I have not cast the chamber yet as I just got it yesterday.
I just started loading bpcr cartridges for my 43 Spanish and 45-70 so my knowledge is fairly limited on bp rounds.
I see also that reaming to wcf is out due to the ss being a larger cartridge already.
3- Any other .257 cartridges that may be a good choice for the #2 action?
Bore is very nice so I don't want to re-chamber to a different cartridge. I just spent a pile of money getting bp and components for the 43 Spanish and really don't want to go through all that again.
Any help is appreciated.
Lab

[wch]

I got the most and best of my information about the 22SS at the American Singleshot Shooters (ASSRA.com) forum.

[4060MAY]

no need to form
available http://www.captechintl.com/proddetai...d=2520SS100pcs

[labradigger1]

no need to form
available http://www.captechintl.com/proddetai...d=2520SS100pcs

At $99 for the rcbs form die it wouldn't take long to recoup the money

[labradigger1]

I did a chamber cast today with cerrosafe. It is definitely a 25-20ss.
What are you using for dies for the ss

[Bent Ramrod]

Check with C-H 4D. I have a set in .25-20 SS and they work very well. The price is lower than RCBS by a considerable amount.

You can buy already formed .25-20SS shells from Captech. The price is only marginally above the basic brass. However, you should be able to form the Captech basic brass without any special forming dies by judicious sizing using your FLS die. If it doesn't go in one pass, try screwing the FLs die down gradually until the shell is fully formed. Use Imperial Sizing Wax.

The Jamison .25-20 SS brass I bought before they became Captech was extremely well made; one hopes that Captech has maintained the quality.

[gnoahhh]

Captech is still good brass. The advice regarding CH-4 dies is spot on. $90 will get a set to your door. A set of CH dies and a handful of CapTech brass is to me a no-brainer. My experience with Bertram brass mirrors that of other folks, but then again I was re-forming it to R2 Lovell and .22 Maximum Lovell- it simply didn't hold up under those pressures. I bet it would be ok with powderpuff .25-20 loads.

Is it me, or do other guys scratch their heads and wonder why so many classic rifles get sold without their loading tools? You never see rifles with loading tools included it seems. I guess people hold onto them and sell separately to maximize profit, or...? I always include the dies if it's an obsolete caliber and I'll never fool with one again.

[labradigger1]

Captech is still good brass. The advice regarding CH-4 dies is spot on. $90 will get a set to your door. A set of CH dies and a handful of CapTech brass is to me a no-brainer. My experience with Bertram brass mirrors that of other folks, but then again I was re-forming it to R2 Lovell and .22 Maximum Lovell- it simply didn't hold up under those pressures. I bet it would be ok with powderpuff .25-20 loads.

Is it me, or do other guys scratch their heads and wonder why so many classic rifles get sold without their loading tools? You never see rifles with loading tools included it seems. I guess people hold onto them and sell separately to maximize profit, or...? I always include the dies if it's an obsolete caliber and I'll never fool with one again.

^^^
This seems like a no brainier to me as well.
I recently bought some Jamison brass from captech for a 43 Spanish and it is top notch. Ch dies are fairly priced as well.
I have sold several guns with dies and boolits, however, I have never bought one that came with them. Too bad this old girl didn't come with them.

[MT Chambers]

In some guns you won't really need dies if you breachseat bullets.

[stubbicatt]

In some guns you won't really need dies if you breachseat bullets.

Yep. But then wouldn't you need a breech seater tool? And at least one piece of formed brass? Can one readily breech seat with a rolling block action? No receiver mortise to lock the tool into as you press the bullet home into the rifling...

[labradigger1]

I will prolly buy the dies. I considered breech seating but I believe I would prefer completed cartridges for a walk around the woods rifle.
From what I've been reading over at assr forums the 25-20ss is a great cartridge and the first center fire cartridge ever developed.
Looking forward the challenge of finding what the old girl likes.

[Nailman]

25-20 SS is not made from .223. You can do it but it is a lot of work. Best bet is to buy some cases from Buffalo Arms already made.
25-20 SS is a rimmed case and .223 has to be turned down on a lathe.

[John Boy]

From what I've been reading over at assr forums the 25-20ss is a great cartridge and the first center fire cartridge ever developed.

* The 44-40 Winchester, also known as .44WCF (Winchester Center Fire), was introduced in 1873 by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. It was the first metallic centerfire cartridge manufactured by Winchester, and was promoted as the standard chambering for the new Winchester Model 1873 rifle.

* Stevens adopted the .25-20, developed by Francis J. Rabbeth in 1882.

[labradigger1]

25-20 SS is not made from .223. You can do it but it is a lot of work. Best bet is to buy some cases from Buffalo Arms already made.
25-20 SS is a rimmed case and .223 has to be turned down on a lathe.

I have an old 1913 south bend 13" "O" series lathe.

[Bent Ramrod]

Back when you couldn't find cases except by pure luck, I ordered 50 from Bill Ballard. He made them from .223's by paring down the bases on a lathe to the diameter of the .25-20SS, running them through dies to shrink the bodies down, sizing them in a .25-20SS sizing die, cutting off the excess and annealing. I think he needed a hydraulic press for some of this resizing, as the heads of .223s are pretty hard, well up into the part of the bodies that formed the neck for the .25-20. The rims were pretty thin, but I was able to use them.

It's a pretty arduous operation (Bill called it something like "fairly violent reconfiguration") and the resultant cases, though usable, were pretty brittle despite the anneal and quickly attrited down to 25 or so, which took a while longer to finally crack and wear out.

Desperate times, desperate measures. Buy Captech stuff and keep them afloat. You and everyone else will benefit.

[Hooker53]

I found that buying a few Pc of used 25-20 SS brass at a time was the least painful for me but found out it was well worth it. This is a fun little round. I have a Stevens 44 in this Cal. What did you finally go with Labra?

Roy
Hooker53

[uscra112]

Before Jamison came out with .25-20 Stevens brass, I made my own from .223, so as to have brass for my .22 Lovells. It IS a lot of work, and you DO need a lathe, and you DO need a hydraulic press. I have a writeup of how to do it if anybody's interested. The rims end up being a bit too thin and a bit small on the O.D., but they are shootable. Lovell loads had to be backed off quite a bit because the web of the formed brass is a lot heavier than the stuff the boys were fooling with back in the '30s and '40s.

[uscra112]

BTW if you see brass for the .22 Lovell 2R for sale, that can be reformed back to the .25-20 parent case. Just be sure to anneal the mouth area to keep it from cracking when you expand it back to .25 caliber. G&H was good quality stuff, made by Winchester.