Thoughts on 380 pistols

[SeabeeMan]

My friends wife sent me, him, and 1 other guy away for the day with a few hundred bucks and told us to take him go carting or something. We got there only to find out they were booked so we went shooting instead! It was a good time to put hands on and rounds through some of the 380 pistols I've been considering to replace my LC9 for daily carry. I love the LC9, I just want something a bit smaller. My wife had already approved the $300 or so purchase of an LCP and I had planned to leave with one that day.

Basically: You get what you pay for. I've always had great luck finding an incredible value in the lower price ranges. My LC9 is awesome and I would take it over any 9mm I have ever shot, except of course the Beretta 92, which I inexplicably fell in love with while carrying it in the service. Same goes for my Marlin XL7, Mossberg 835, and many others. All guns that shoot far outside their price range.

Not the case here. I shot the LCP, LC380, Glock 42, Sig P238, and the Pico. I put 200 rounds downrange with them and I figured I'd share my thoughts. All groups were at 20 feet with 2 magazines of 12 rounds. I also held the Bodyguard 380 and Mustang, but wasn't impressed/intrigued enough to put range bought ammo through them.

Ruger LCP: Too small. I could really only get a finger and a half below the trigger guard and the sights were very difficult to acquire. The trigger pull was long but better than my LC9 originally (it's had a the trigger upgrade.) The recoil was very "jumpy" and it was difficult to bring the gun back inline for a second shot. Roughly 6" group.

LC380: Sized the same as the LC9 and I wouldn't call the recoil significantly less. Not sure why you'd even buy this gun vs the LC9. That said, a nice gun. Groups were 3-4"

Pico: Just as small as the LCP...too small. Better sights though. The 3 dots helped immensely and the grouping was 3-4".

Glock 42: I think I actually said "wow" after the first trigger pull. I've never been a big fan of Glocks. They're great pistols and bombproof, just not my bad. This little thing is a whole different story. The Glock "boxiness" works on this thing without making it seem to blocky. Nothing protrude or has odd proportions and it just feel good in the hand. The gun comes up nicely and settles right on target without any extra movement. The trigger pull wasn't overly long but there was some distance to it...what I would expect on a concealed carry pistol. The sights worked very well and I really like the goal-post & dot design of them. Groups were 2.5" with 12 rounds. I was already trying to decide if I would leave with the Glock and ask for forgiveness later.

P238: If I thought the Glock was significantly better than the others, the P238 was that much again. The first shot actually surprised me a bit with the shot and crisp trigger pull, which is similar to the 2 stage trigger on my AR, just heavier on the break. There was very little take-up and it broke cleanly, which I wasn't ready for after shooting the other pistols. First shot was dead center in the bullseye and the next 11 followed, completely cutting out the red 1" bullseye and leaking over a bit into the 9 ring. The entire group was under 2" and the pistol was an absolute joy to shoot. The gun tended to recoil straight back more so than flipping the barrel up. After shooting this one, all other 380 pistols are out of contention and I need to find another $400 to foot the $700 price tag on the SIG.

I'm very glad I didn't buy the LCP without putting rounds through it. The biggest problem with this trip was I tried out a Sig 1911 Scorpion TB with an Osprey 45 Suppressor...which is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on if you don't get to play with machine guns anymore. This was an indoor range and the slide going back into battery was one of the loudest noises you could hear. We put the target at 75 feet and you could actually hear the bullet hit the paper.

[birch]

I have owned or shot just about all of the little guys. I have carried a lcp for almost two years and trust it with my life. I have tried every factory load, and every handload I could muster, and have never had a malfunction of any kind. I even tried little more that a primer and it ejected. I chose reliability over comfort.

I bought the Sig 238 for my wife to carry for all the reasons above and all the reasons you stated. Plus it has a manual safety which my wife insisted be on her carry piece.

If you look closely, you can find a 238 on the used market for 450-500 dollars. I don't think a person could damage a 238 under normal circumstances in a lifetime or two of shooting--maybe a recoil spring change.

My vote--ruger lcp or Sig 238.

I also rejected the bodyguard mostly because smith thought it a good idea to make barrels out of powdered metal.

[SeabeeMan]

I should add a thought to the LCP: All of my issues were because of the size of my hands. I could see if being a great gun if you can get a good grip on it. That would most likely have solved my issue with the recoil as well.

[Walkingwolf]

Kahr makes a seven shot 380 that is slimmer than the G42, and holds seven plus one. Price range is usually around 300 dollars discounted. People that have the smaller six shot version love them. The seven would give room for an extra finger, the slim profile would make the gun more pocket able than the G42. CT380 slide width .75, G42 slide width .94.

Plus until September Kahr will mail an extra magazine as a rebate for the purchase of a c-series gun.

[SeabeeMan]

Walkingwolf, I'll have to check that out. I think one of the little LGS' around here have Kahr sometimes.

[Bonz]

I have carried the Ruger LCP 380 for years now but never carried a round in the chamber because the hammer "pre-cocks" when you chamber a round. I just purchased one of the newly designed S&W Bodyguard 380 and now use that for my EDC when its too hot for a vest, jacket, etc

[9.3X62AL]

Ah, the SIG P-238. The 380 ACP gets downright docile and tractable when housed in a locked-breech platform. The 380's recoil in a blowback pistol isn't much different than that of most locked-breech 9mm pistols, so for my use I always opted for the 9mm over the 380 for social venues......and since most 9mm smallpistoles also come chambered in 40 S&W, well......

The best 380 ACP I ever fired was my ex-wife's Colt Government Model 380, hands down. The SIG P-238 inherits most of that pistol's positive aspects--locked breech, 1911A1 controls regimen/placement, great looks, reliable and accurate functioning, tractable attitude. My view--the P-238 is worth the extra coin.

[Uncle Jimbo]

Nice write up rich kildow. Wish I would have been there to enjoy the day.

[SeabeeMan]

Thanks! This was all at Fireline in Rice Lake, WI. It's a fairly new place but VERY nice. It's clean, has all the requisite accessories and they carry moderate to high priced reloading stuff, including ETR-7! Their gun prices are all in what I would consider fair retail range for a brick and mortar store. Obviously deals can be had online for just about everything. They were quick to tell me a few times that they'll special order anything I want, including reloading components.

It was actually my first time ever paying to shoot as well as ever shooting at an indoor range. I've worked with a few of their employees on various things in the past and the gentleman who helped us was very respectful while still making sure he said what he needed to. I don't know how it works at other ranges, but here you pay a $22 lane fee and $15 rental fee. The latter amounts to buying into the entire rental pool, which consists 30 or more pistols of various calibers, some of which are suppressed. Sig, Ruger, FN, Glock, Colt, Beretta, and others are all up for grabs. They also have 2 AR's, one of which is suppressed. You buy their ammo, which is all fairly priced. A box of 50 380 was 20.99, 45 was 15.99 (I think), and 223 was 20 for 7.99. You are free to pick up your brass and take them as long as you don't cross the firing line. If you're done with 1 gun, simply drop the mag, insert the chamber flag, which I think was weed whacker line, and bring it back out. Being a member, of which they have many different levels and discounts for LEO/military/vet brings the prices down to $15 and $8, respectively, and a 5% discount on everything except firearms. You get your rental fee back if you purchase a gun.

My only complain would be that a few of their employees seem to think that the slightest mention of military experience is the starting shot for a genitalia measuring contest. I've seen this a few times with 3 different guys there. That's easy enough to ignore though and I've just learned to play stupid...heck, I might just learn something that way!

[oldcanadice]

Uh: 9.3 From the Ruger site. "The strong locked breech action of the RUGER® LCP TM utilizes a tilting barrel design in which the barrel and slide are locked together at the moment of firing." It isn't a blowback. Mine works like a charm.

[pjames32]

I like my LCP and carry it most of the time. Learning to grip the gun s a challenge, but with practice becomes more natural. I have recently purchased a Rohrbaugh R9s (no longer in production). This is a 9mm (no +P) and is the same size as the LCP. Once I'm acclimated this will become my regular pocket carry piece. YMMV
PJ

[Bored1]

Before you buy the P238 Try a P938. A really good friend of mine had the P238, and loved it. He ended up getting a 938 for his wife and after my girlfriend tried the 238 & 938 she decided on the 938. The P938 is a GREAT little gun! If you look at Summitgunbroker you Wont pay near the 700$ price tag for either and he's an awfully nice guy to deal with! Just my 2 cents.

[SeabeeMan]

Bored1, I didn't even know that was out there. If it shoots like the P238, it may be a winner!

[BCall]

Wideners is advertising P238's for $490.

[Bored1]

The p938 is essentially the same gun as the 238 except 9mm. I did a ton of price checking everywhere for the 938 before I bought one, and found summitgunbroker has the best prices BY FAR. CHECK here: http://summitgunbroker.com/sig-sauer.html

no advertised price, however will send you one in an email. Something about Sig getting PO'd about selling them lower than they say you can. Not sure if its a marketing gimmic or not, but He beat every price I could find at the time by well over 100$ and that was after shipping and transfer fees!

[snowwolfe]

I been really happy with both my LCP's but maybe don't know what I am missing ? The LCP's are easy to shoot well at 10 yards or under and neither have ever jammed or failed to feed.

[Bored1]

Don't get me wrong the 238 is a great gun, however the 938 is just AWESOME. 9mm makes everything so much easier in my opinion with brass, loading etc. I inherited the girlfriends old Taurus 738 when we got her the sig, and while I'm happy with it, comparing the Taurus to that 938 is like comparing a steak dinner with all the trimmings to a bologna sandwich. Will you be full when its all said and done, yep, but you'll enjoy the steak meal a whole lot better!!!!!

[jcren]

somewhat larger than most of these, but recently got a bersa thunder and have been pleasantly surprised by the quality and accuracy of the gun. Plus, it has a nice gentle lead that is very boolit friendly!

[ProfGAB101]

Near the same size class as the Bersa Thunder is perhaps the best of the budget 380's - The Makarov.

DA start with SA follow up, 8+1 capacity, all steel, hammer drop safety. Fixed barrel can be replaced with an extended threaded unit for suppressor use and the suppressor can be smaller since it will not need a recoil booster.

I bought mine full retail when the market was still flooded with them for $149 plus local sales tax.

Prior to this I had a Walther PPK/S Stainless and I could have almost bought 4 Makarov's for what that Walther cost, and the PP/PPK/PPK-s all lack a thumb slide release. The Walther was NOT fun to shoot and was an ammo snob, very picky.

[fecmech]

I've owned and carried the Ruger LCP and Keltec P3at. Both are very snappy to shoot and require some practice to master IMO. They are not target guns but simply a tool to save your butt. That said they are both truly pocket pistols that you can carry in your pocket and forget they are there. I think the glock 42 (I've handled and shot one) is not a pocket gun, too bulky. Both it and the Sig P238 are in the 18-20 ounce class fully loaded, that weighs a pocket down pretty good. My KT is 11.5 oz. fully loaded and the LCP adds an ounce to that. That is the main reason they are so snappy to shoot. To my mind I want something ALWAYS with me and these little guns fill the bill. If you have to carry it in a holster then you have to think about it all the time and what you're wearing. I think the bigger .380's are holster guns (that's just my thinking) and if I'm going to wear a holster it will be with a compact 9mm or .40. The Kahr .380 is as slim and trim as the KT and Ruger and only about 3.5 oz. heavier. It has excellent sights and as comfortable to shoot as the Glock 42. I personally think the Kahr .380 is the best compromise between pocket carry and shootability. Just my ramblings on the subject