Your Experience with .45acp in Moon Clips

[fourarmed]

I just traded for a Performance Center 625-8 with 5" barrel. I have done a lot of casting and loading for semiauto .45s, but never for one of these. Are there any special considerations that I need to know about? I got a lot of clips with it, so I probably will use them exclusively, although if some AR brass came my way, I would be interested.

[Charley]

Jut have a M-1917, close, but slightly different. nice thing about revolvers in .45 ACP is you can use any bullet, and not have to worry about feeding. Full moon clips are nice, but I prefer the three round clips.

[Intel6]

Been shooting Moon clipped guns since the 80's when I got my first 625. One of my initial recommendations is to get a batch of brass for it and make it for the revolver only. Autos put dings and stuff on brass that can cause the rounds to drag when fired through a revolver so if you start with some good brass and keep them separate then it does away with that problem.

I had a coffee can of once fired WW cases back then and I made it my revolver brass. If it is a specific headstamp then it is easy to sort out for the revo only. I still use that batch of WW brass for the .45 ACP revolvers. The other thing about loading ammo specifically for the revolver is you can put a roll crimp on it if the bullet permits it. Get a Redding .45 Auto Rim Profile Crimp and it will put a nice revolver style roll crimp, .45 ACP reloading dies are for autos that need a taper crimp.

Neal in AZ

[Larry Gibson]

Jut have a M-1917, close, but slightly different. nice thing about revolvers in .45 ACP is you can use any bullet, and not have to worry about feeding. Full moon clips are nice, but I prefer the three round clips.

I also prefer the 3 round half moon clips for casual shooting. It's much easier to keep the revolver loaded when not shooting the cylinderful, especially on a walk about the desert or woods. I close the cylinder so the 1st shot fired is the 1st round on a half moon. Then if I shoot 1 or 2 rounds I can easily replace that half moon with a full one. Of course if I shoot 3 shots then the entire half moon is replaced. The half moons are easier to reload w/o a tool when walking about also. I often carry the loaded half moons and single rounds in one pouch of a claymore bag. The empty half moons and/or empty brass goes in the other side. I have spent numerous very enjoyable walks with M1917 and M25 revolvers or lastly with my M1917/25.

Larry Gibson

Attachment 146136

[Nueces]

Larry's flexible loading techniques can be used with these two round clips from Ranch Products:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/126...ProductFinding

Pairs of rounds will fit in plastic ammo boxes.

I tried some of the plastic full moon clips and found nothing but frustration. They hold the brass too firmly for quick loading. Even ejecting is balky. I say go with the steel clips, 2, 3 or 6 round. I've used them since the early 70s.

[376Steyr]

In my experience, when using identical loads, AR cases can be much more accurate. I think this is because the rimmed cases headspace and align better than the clipped ACP brass. My favorite load in my M25 (with .455" throats) is AR brass, 5.8 of W231, and a rock-hard commercial cast H&G 68. It shouldn't work, but it does.

[Scharfschuetze]

I guess I'm the odd man out as I prefer the six round full moon clips, but I'm certainly not adverse to using the half moon clips either. I've never tried the 2 round clips.

Larry certainly has a point on loading in the field, but I have enough clips to carry on without reloading the clips for some time for my Model 1917s (Colt and S&W). One of my comrades on the PD used a 625 S&W back in the early 80s and by using the full moon clips he could load much faster on the qualification courses than the rest of us using various speed loaders in 41 and 357 calibre revolvers.

I do use a clip loader for the metal half moon and the full moon clips that eases the process quite a bit. Lately I've been using a plastic/nylon full moon clip that is very easy to load without any special tool. I don't seem to have the problems that Nueces has. They are made in slightly different sizes so perhaps he has the wrong size for his revolver.

[jeepyj]

I have some once fired AR brass although I'm really not looking to get rid of it I may be enticed to trade for some of those moon clips. PM me if your interested.
Jeepyj

[Uncle R.]

I have a 1955 Target that I love dearly. I often used it with full moon clips as a bowling pin revolver in the 80s.

In those days it was common for pin shooters to countersink the chamber edges on their ACP revolvers for faster reloads. Unwilling to cut on my lovely and very accurate old Smith I devised a load using the 454190 bullet with a full, hard roll crimp into the upper grease groove. That crimp would bury the case mouth behind the ogive of the bullet so there was no chance of cases hanging up on chamber edges. Everything presented to the chambers was rounded and tapered and the loaded moon clip would slide home in a flash. Of course such ammo will not headspace properly without clips and can't be fired without clips in an emergency as normal ACP ammo can.

My 1955 Target shoots very well with AR cases but accuracy (while fine for pin shooting) may be not quite as good with moon clips. Worse, double action shooting will give occasional misfires on moon-clipped ammo if I use the harder brands of primers. Federal primers are 100% even with the clips and I use them exclusively for my roll-crimped "clip" loads.

Hope this helps.

Uncle R.

[Artful]

I have half and full moon clips - for competition I used the full moon - found some white plastic water pipe they fit into just dandy and found some nylon pouches that would hold one clip on top of the other so two pouches and 4 clips just stick your finger into the center hole and they come right out. I tried the plastic full moon when they first came out but disliked 'em - YMMV. And yes the 1911's etc ding up the brass but I never really had an issue with interchanging them - I found the 230grn truncated cones feed well in either my 1911's or my S&W so I pretty much only use those now for everything.

You can use a tool like shown or just go to home depot and get a small chunk of copper pipe that's as long as 7 empty cases will just fit over the 45 brass - cut a step on one end so that it will fit over the end of the moon clip and put a handle on the other end, hold the used moon clip in one hand with the case mouths down slip the tube up and twist to pop off the clip and the brass falls into the tube - repeat 5 more times and the moon clip is empty and the cases are in the tube then just empty the tube into whatever receptacle you want.

Uncle R - you might check your tension screw on the grip of your smith - people back that off to get a lighter trigger but it weakens the hammer blow to the primer.

[Uncle R.]

snip
Uncle R - you might check your tension screw on the grip of your smith - people back that off to get a lighter trigger but it weakens the hammer blow to the primer.

Thanks Artful, I have checked it and it's tight. I wouldn't be surprised if that screw's been shortened or maybe even the main spring ground or thinned somewhere in the past. I can't see any evidence of either but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been done.

If it HAS had any trigger work done it was done very well. The trigger pull (SA or DA) is exquisite, but it has never slipped the notch on me and will resist a moderately firm thumb push on the cocked hammer. I don't want to try pushing harder - don't want to shear those edges for no reason.

The revolver suffers from a bit of end shake and that may well be contributing to the ignition issues. The Cylinder and Slide rep at a Second Chance match long ago offered to shim the cylinder for me but I hesitate to make any changes, as the gun shoots SO well as it is. I'm talking ragged hole at 25 yards accurate. It's just amazing, and is surely one of my most accurate handguns - if not THE most accurate handgun I own.

The misfire issue is not a big deal anyway, it happens very rarely and never with Federal 150 primers. I'm sure it's because the moon clips don't support the case as solidly in the chamber as a "normal" cartridges and the tiny bit of "spring" that I get from any slight malformation of the clip or the case rim cushions the hammer blow just enough to cause misfires.

I don't shoot it often these days, although on the rare ocassions that I get to shoot pins I'm likely to take the old girl to the dance. If I'm shooting bullseye with a revolver I prefer my K-38 and for any kind of "action" revolver shooting I prefer my 4" K-frames. I still shoot .22s now and then, my best 1911 gets a lot of exercise, my carry guns get shot regularly for serious and dutiful practice, but the big .45 gets ignored in the back of the safe.
Sigh.

Even if I don't take her out much I'll never let the old girl go. That 1955 Target is one of the good ones and those are the kind you keep for life.

Uncle R.

[baogongmeo]

I have a Model 28 Smith that's been converted to 45ACP/AR. I got tired of clipping and unclipping the rounds so for the last several years I've been loading the chambers singly and using a wooden dowel to eject the empty ACPs. It's quicker and easier than using the moon clips.

[35remington]

If there is slack in the system, like on an upward angling shot or when a dirty cylinder doesn't let the round seat solidly due to quickly inserting rounds without firmly pressing the clip home the moon clipped revolver is somewhat more prone to misfires than a conventional revolver.

This is due to the fact that the round drags the adjacent rounds forward in unison and this cushions the blow of the firing pin. If the rounds in the cylinder HAVE to fire, such as firing upward in a SD situation (you can be knocked to the ground) the rounds in the cylinder should be rimmed ones, not rimless ones clipped together.

Adding a loose piece of metal to the headspacing equation does not improve a revolver's ignition reliability.

[Nueces]

Scharf, thanks for pointing out that there are two sizes of the Rimz clips for S&W ACP wheelers. I don't recall any details about mine, but they were too stiff to function in both early and late guns: a 1950 Target M-26 and a M-625-6 Mountain Gun. If mine were late production Rimz, you'd expect them to function in one of these anyway. Will try again if I find some lyin' in the road.

[Scharfschuetze]

Nueces,

Yes, I was a bit confused on the issue so I called him on the phone and he squared me away with the proper size. It's been a few years now so I don't remember the size. I just checked my ammo box and I threw away the labeled package with the details so that's no help either. Sorry.

[Nueces]

Scharf, I was going from your middle photo, which is pretty clear about sizes.

[crawfobj]

Thanks for the info guys. I had a 625 mountain gun follow me home this week after a long search, and had to order some moon clips. I went with steel for now, but will probably also get some plastic ones and some AR brass at some point. I love 45acp, and I'm guessing this will quickly become my favorite revolver.

[Grapeshot]

I used to have three S&W 1917's and a Colt 1917 and used both half moon and full moon clips to shoot .45 ACP Ammo out of them. Started out doing the same with my S&W 625 Model of 1989 until I found some .45 Auto-Rim cases and ditched the clips. The clips were great for fast reloads, but were a PIA to remove spent cases from them. Now I use a HKS Speed Loader or two and the .45 AR cases and haven't looked back.

[Bigslug]

I have three revolvers that use mooners - a 1917 Smith, a .45ACP-converted Webley, and a Pro-Series Smith .357 that can use mooners or not at the pilot's discretion.

My advice: unless you need the fastest possible reload for competition purposes (which is known as a 1911, BTW), buy a batch of Auto Rim cases and retire the clips. Such is my ultimate plan. The clips and the tools that go with them are a pain.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Attachment 146193Attachment 146194Attachment 146195Attachment 146192Here's a handy-dandy tool for de-mooning that I got from Brownell's. Some things are so simple, and a guy could do this in his shop with a piece of tubing of the appropriate diameter, a hacksaw and a file. You could get imaginative for the handle, and could even get by if you drilled a cross hole at the handle end and slipped in a small rod to make a "T" handle. The business end is cut down approx. .1" for about 2/3 of it's circumference leaving a curved projection, and the inside of the tube measures about .625". You just put it over the cartridge or case that you want to take out and twist. Almost effortless.