Hot loading .38 spl full wad cutters

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I was thinking of making some hot wadcutters for my .38 for close quarters personal protection.

Since a wadcutter takes up a lot of space in the case it's hard to push them fast without going over pressure.

My thought was to give it an OAL similar to a standard 158 grain LSWC then use 158gr load data. I've got the Lee 358-147 mould and some boolits laying around.

Anyone try this before?

[Boolseye]

I've pushed WCs pretty hard in .357 mag, up to around 900 or 1000fps.
if I recall, I put a decent charge of BE behind them. They were that Lee 358-148.
there are some pretty good posts here that really get into this subject, too. You wanna watch the pressures, of course. Lately I've been loading DEWCs backward with a low charge of BE-2.7 grains. Unbelievably accurate, I seat them pretty shallow, with the whole base exposed.

[bhn22]

So are you talking std pressure 38 Spl, 38 Spl +P, or 38-44 levels? All have been done before, and all will be done again. Look over Ed Harris' wadcutter recommendations: http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris...FBI%20Load.htm. If you're planning on shooting them in a 357 mag gun, Lyman has plenty of 357 mag wadcutter loads in their older manuals running over 1300 fps. If you're not using a 357 mag level gun, the 38-44 loads are out of the question for you, and +P is doable only in guns rated for the higher pressures. Seriously, if you feel the need for heavier loads than your gun/cartridge combo is rated for, this is your golden excuse to buy a bigger gun.

[TCFAN]

358432 Lyman wad cutter is what you need. NOE is doing a group buy on this boolit in solid and hollow point. You can find it here. http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....pic,984.0.html

[Geezer in NH]

I use a standard HB wad cutter by Hornady or Speer at normal load amount and Velocity. I do however load it HB forward. Flattens out at 7 yards in a gallon milk jug of water.

Many of my buddies use this load in 38's

[tazman]

In addition to the 358432, you can use any standard wadcutter and crimp it in one of the grease grooves. This moves the boolit out of the case more so you can use standard loads for 150 grain boollits.
Just measure the seating depth of a semi wadcutter and find which grease groove corresponds to the same seating depth.
This works like a charm for me.
The only issue I have is one of my Smiths has a small cylinder throat and the only wadcutter I can seat long for it is the 358432 because it has a bore rider nose. All the others which I size for the rest of my guns won't chamber in that revolver.

[gwpercle]

358432 Lyman wad cutter is what you need. NOE is doing a group buy on this boolit in solid and hollow point. You can find it here. http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....pic,984.0.html

The Lyman #358432 comes in two weights, 148 grain and 160 grain. Same number but two weights. I have the 160 grain mould and testing so far shows it to be the most accurate in two 38 specials and a 357 magnum.
NOE is duplicating the 160 grain version, with pins so you can cast solid point or hollow point or cup point versions, talk about versatile !

I wish I hadn't seen that....now I got to justify getting another mould! But I already have a perfectly good 358432....but it's not a hollow point....but will a hollow point be better...I don't know.... This addiction is driving me to the poor house.

I have to stop listening to the voices in my head....they make me spend money!

[Shiloh]

What about the 158 gr RF by LEE?? Not a WC but would sure hit hard.

Shiloh

[Blackwater]

This has been a big question for SD use for a long, long time, and the answer still seems to be, when all info is taken into consideration, that it very well CAN be effective in .38's, but like ANY and ALL lesser powered calibers and loads, it must be PLACED well to work. This is just the way these things work, and there's no magic in the names we give calibers or loads. it's just a matter of simple results, and with all the variables one can run into in a SD situation, the full load WC is probably at least as good as most, and better than many. With the lower recoil level, there's really no excuse for even a tyro not placing shots well, but that's a matter of psychology and state of mind at any given moment, which is always the "X factor" that can skew many people's experience. With the #1 rule in a gunfight being to simply "have a gun," it'll beat the heck out of wearing a silly grin! As with any tool, from an axe to a hammer, it all depends on how it's wielded that matters most. That's what most evaluations leave out, and it's the most important part. It's amazing how accurate 2" snubbies can really be, but they are harder to shoot because of the short sight radius, etc. Good grips that fit your hand can often make a very significant difference in how well and quickly they can be shot, too. That's been my experience, anyway, and I've been noting these type of related reports for a good many years now. In the final analysis, it seems to be how the gun is wielded and where the bullets land that has the greatest effect. FWIW?

[RogerDat]

Just a curiosity question. How much powder charge does it take to push a WC or SWC or RFN in 38 special through the body be it human or threatening animal you might consider for SD scenarios. Ideally bullet would stop just touching the opposite side of the body. Then all force would have been transferred, going all the way through and out the other side is just wasted powder.

What is a typical range for SD situation? In my house only needs to go 50 ft. at absolute longest possible range. With 20 ft. being more likely. I guess I wondering is there a need to push these rounds really hard or is that a myth?

[35remington]

Yes I have. Reader's digest version I will go into more detail elsewhere:

it is better to load the wadcutter deeply. Velocity consistency is such that average power is as good as when seated out, and powder forward orientation for the longer case results in handicapping it in velocity. Powder forward orientation is the most likely condition for concealed carry and the deeply seated wadcutter easily outruns the shallowly seated one in this condition.

Besides, the non Plus P wadcutter do 860 to 890 fps in a 4 inch with Titegroup or Bullseye and 775 to 800 in a snubby. This is controllable and much more is tough to deal with in a lightweight gun.

The 38 is better as a defensive cartridge with a deeply seated bullet. It is more consistent, more predictable and has no practical deficit in power compared to a bullet seated out.

If handloads for SD make you nervous Buffalo Bore makes a standard pressure WC that goes 850 from a short barrel but in a lightweight revolver this might get a little vigorous.

[Charlie U.]

I have messed around with hotrodding wadcutters in the .38special and .357mag. I just loaded up a batch of .38s (moderate pressure) earlier this week. My loads used boolits cast from Lyman 358432 and 358344 molds.




The 358344 is a full wadcutter and my mold/alloy yeilds a 155 grain boolit. In the .38 special I keep them moderate. My full house loads using W296 and Power Pistol are made in 357mag and are real thumpers. When I CCW my 3" Ruger sp101 I have no reservations about loading the cylinder with these wadcutters.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Charlie, those are some beautiful boolits!

I have used data from my Lee book to make some really nice .357 Magnum wadcutter loads, but my SP101 is a little heavy for day to day carry so I end up packing my 642 or LCRX most of the time and they are both .38+P.

As much as I like that boolit I've already got the Lee mould so I'm trying to make the best of that one.

I figure good things would happen if cast with pure lead and a powder coat.

[Blackwater]

I forgot to mention that in my experience at least, the solid (non-hollow base) WC's, they seem to like to be run a bit harder than the hollow base kind, and tend to stay stable as to accuracy for a bit further, though I never really tried to see just how far they'd hold up. They do well at 50 to at least 75, though. Well past normal SD ranges.

[Frank V]

Yes I have. Reader's digest version I will go into more detail elsewhere:

it is better to load the wadcutter deeply. Velocity consistency is such that average power is as good as when seated out, and powder forward orientation for the longer case results in handicapping it in velocity. Powder forward orientation is the most likely condition for concealed carry and the deeply seated wadcutter easily outruns the shallowly seated one in this condition.

Besides, the non Plus P wadcutter do 860 to 890 fps in a 4 inch with Titegroup or Bullseye and 775 to 800 in a snubby. This is controllable and much more is tough to deal with in a lightweight gun.

The 38 is better as a defensive cartridge with a deeply seated bullet. It is more consistent, more predictable and has no practical deficit in power compared to a bullet seated out.

If handloads for SD make you nervous Buffalo Bore makes a standard pressure WC that goes 850 from a short barrel but in a lightweight revolver this might get a little vigorous.

I am one who doesn't like handloads for defense. It's not a reliability thing, but a lawyer thing.
I have shot Buffalo Bore in both the .38 Special & 9mm it's great ammo. I'd have no problem using the Buffalo Bore WC, but they make a nice SWC non +P that has clocked over 800fps for me from a 2".
I have used WC extensively for small game at standard velocities & have had great results.
Thanks.

[John McCorkle]

I am one who doesn't like handloads for defense. It's not a reliability thing, but a lawyer thing.
I have shot Buffalo Bore in both the .38 Special & 9mm it's great ammo. I'd have no problem using the Buffalo Bore WC, but they make a nice SWC non +P that has clocked over 800fps for me from a 2".
I have used WC extensively for small game at standard velocities & have had great results.
Thanks.

I have read the lawyer justification on loads before....are there cases where this has come up in legal defense or just a possibility of coming up in legal defense?

I guess you could just as much see argument about any factory expanding bullet from the same lawyer lens too...just curious.

I carry handloads because I know 1000% barring a bad factory primer (still in the range of possible) it will work flawlessly in my gun, it's accurate beyond what I can get in factory, and I can practice to become more proficient

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[mdi]

I really don't want to get into the "prosecuted for handloads" discussion again. There is no way a consensus can be reached on this subject...

I have a Lyman mold for a 148 gr. DEWC, I cast with WW alloy, and load it over a near max/max. load of W231 for one of my house guns. I seat to the crimp groove, just like I do for my "target loads" with this bullet; 2.9 gr Bullseye (these are normally cast of 20-1 or thereabouts). It's been a while since I chonied them but IIRC they ran about 850 fps. That speed in a full 35 cal flat nose bullet should do the job at living room distances...

[KenH]

I have read the lawyer justification on loads before....are there cases where this has come up in legal defense or just a possibility of coming up in legal defense?Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

https://www.gunforums.net/forums/gen...mas-ayoob.html

[John McCorkle]

https://www.gunforums.net/forums/gen...mas-ayoob.html

Thanks Ken, have never actually thought about gun shot residue being an issue

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[dubber123]

Aaah, the "lawyer" thing... Well I MUCH prefer my handloads, in the probably 100,000+ I have assembled, I'm drawing a blank trying to remember one not going "bang". I can however remember at least 3 factory rounds doing just that.

But on topic, a full wadcutter probably is a decent choice for self defense, and getting one up to speed even when seated normally is no trick at all. My normal wadcutter loads run about 900 fps.