Bullet Lube after the Shot

[billdean]

Been trying to get a good hunting load ready for this season. I have been getting really high Standard Deviations and Extreme Spreads when working up my loads which in the past seemed to suggest I have not found the specific charge the gun likes. I weight each powder charge. After checking my 100 yard target I decided to dig for some of my bullets in the sand bank to see how they were preforming. To my surprise the bullets still have the lube in the lube grooves after being shot. All though I am not experiencing any leading in the barrel I am wondering if this would be normal?? I asked this because my loads seem to clime or raise in elevation the more I shoot.

[Tatume]

Welcome to the forum.

It is not unusual to find lube in cast bullets after they have been fired. I presume your sd and es refer to speed; what do you consider to be "really high?"

What type of gun are you shooting? What cartridge? Many times point of impact for handguns rises as the shooter gets tired (even slightly) and relaxes the grip. This allows the gun to rise more when fired.

It is highly unlikely that there is a systematic error in the ammunition that would lead to an increase in speed as shots are fired. However, I have observed the same apparent behavior, but attribute it to serendipity.

Take care, Tom

[44man]

You do not want lube left. It should all spin out at the muzzle. The lube you have is too hard and not all will leave so you have boolits out of balance.
Bore condition will affect those numbers. Poor lube will change SD and ES.
It sounds like you are buying boolits.

[billdean]

Sorry a Marlin 45-70 1895 is my rifle. Yes speed would be correct all though I am not looking for fast bullets. ES=280 and SD=120 44grains of H322 powder is way to much. I have loaded this 45-70 in the past with 52 to 54 grains of H322 with great results. Just wanting an accurate load thats not so punishing using the same powder. Exceptable SD to me are the lower the better around 10 same with the ES 15, 20

[billdean]

You do not want lube left. It should all spin out at the muzzle. The lube you have is too hard and not all will leave so you have boolits out of balance.
Bore condition will affect those numbers. Poor lube will change SD and ES.
It sounds like you are buying boolits.

I am casting my own bullets but buying my lube. It just seems I got a lot better result when I used another lube with the same work up. I agree with your statement. I thought the lube should be used up in the bore.

[Larry Gibson]

What's the bullet you're casting?

What's the lubes you're using?

Larry Gibson

[35remington]

H322 is quite position sensitive. A partially filled case is your problem, it would appear.

[MBTcustom]

I have lots of experience with that rifle, and I've tried quite a few lube methods.
The two that work best are:
50/50 bees wax and olive oil (thank you Larry Gobson!)

and now I shall duck behind a fireproof wall when I say the other method is POWDER COAT.
You should try it. Works real well in 45-70.

[billdean]

H322 is quite position sensitive. A partially filled case is your problem, it would appear.

Yes.......I would agree. It shoots much better at closer to max loads. How about using a filler in the case?

[white eagle]

try another powder if you can
I use rel 7 and 3031 with good results

[billdean]

What's the bullet you're casting?

What's the lubes you're using?

Larry Gibson

46-350VG by Accurate Mold.
I am not sure it would be appropriate to say who's lube I am using seeing he sell it here on CB. I would rather talk with him about the lube. Lets say a lot of people here use it.

[stubert]

I have been using 50/50 beeswax- moly grease. no leading, and no heater required in my 45-70.

[billdean]

I have lots of experience with that rifle, and I've tried quite a few lube methods.
The two that work best are:
50/50 bees wax and olive oil (thank you Larry Gobson!)

and now I shall duck behind a fireproof wall when I say the other method is POWDER COAT.
You should try it. Works real well in 45-70.

Thanks GoodSteel..........Thats a pretty simple lube, beeswax and olive oil. I just happen to have both on hand. I whipped up a bit to try a minute ago. With a clean barrel to start, I did not experience any leading after shooting 12 shots. I really like the H322 powder on jacketed bullets but on cast you have to really crank up the charge (50+ grains) for better results. I have some IMR4198 I use in my 430g HC Bullets. I may have to try that for a lighter better shooting load.

[runfiverun]

use the tuft of Dacron with the 322 [as a case filler] it is very position sensitive.
[runfiveslittlegirl] done a write-up on the position sensitivity of H-322 in the 7.65 argentine rifles about 5-6 years back.
it should be in the archives here somewhere.
but it shows the velocity difference between 3 different barrel lengths, ES and vertical stringing, and how a filler will position the powder to control the ES of a cast load.
]that's if you believe a teenage girl on the internet[

[plainsman456]

I shoot a 325+- home cast with 2500+ for lube.

I could care less if the lube stays on if i get the groups i want and the velocity i want to shoot.

So far this has not disappointed me.
The rifle in question is a Marlin 95 with a 22 in.barrel.
It shoots to point of aim out to 150 yards which is all i ask of it.
I also use the same lube for pistol loads both magnums and the normal ones.
To add i have had no leading so far on any of the firearms that have shot this lube/lead mix.
Hope you get it working for you.

[billdean]

use the tuft of Dacron with the 322 [as a case filler] it is very position sensitive.
[runfiveslittlegirl] done a write-up on the position sensitivity of H-322 in the 7.65 argentine rifles about 5-6 years back.
it should be in the archives here somewhere.
but it shows the velocity difference between 3 different barrel lengths, ES and vertical stringing, and how a filler will position the powder to control the ES of a cast load.
]that's if you believe a teenage girl on the internet[

Thanks Run.........I was wondering if that was the case. I have seen the closer you come to a full charged case the lower the SD and ES, and the better the groups. Sometimes by quite a bit.

[Larry Gibson]

As mentioned H322 is position sensitive in the 45-70, especially with that bullet weight. Use the Dacron filler with it as runfiverun recommends.

The makers of lubes here understand that some lubes only work best in some applications and all lubes do not work equally well in all applications. That's why many make more than one kind of lube; for different applications. If you want to know an easy way to whip up some beeswax/olive oil lube I can post it.

Larry Gibson

[billdean]

As mentioned H322 is position sensitive in the 45-70, especially with that bullet weight. Use the Dacron filler with it as runfiverun recommends.

The makers of lubes here understand that some lubes only work best in some applications and all lubes do not work equally well in all applications. That's why many make more than one kind of lube; for different applications. If you want to know an easy way to whip up some beeswax/olive oil lube I can post it.

Larry Gibson

Thanks Larry...........I would like to see your post on beeswax/olive oil. I will have to find some dacron filler or try another powder.

[MikeS]

46-350VG by Accurate Mold.
I am not sure it would be appropriate to say who's lube I am using seeing he sell it here on CB. I would rather talk with him about the lube. Lets say a lot of people here use it.

Bill, It's always appropriate to mention what lube you're using. Just because a forum member is making/selling it is no reason not to mention it's name. First off, your experience with the lube isn't going to be everyone's, I think most forum members know that, and by mentioning what lube you're using you might just find that another forum member has had the same experience as you, but found a fix for the problem that they can easily pass on to you, but if you don't say what lube you're using you'll never learn if another forum member has a fix for your problem with that specific lube. Besides, if the 'fix' is to switch lubes, then you won't be buying it anymore, whereas if a forum member tells you something like "just add 2oz of XXX to the lube and you'll be good to go" and that works good (XXX being whatever it might be that might fix it), then you'll continue to buy that lube, and maybe the forum member that's selling it might modify their formula as a result (or offer another version of their lube), so by mentioning their lube you're actually doing them a favor in the long run. And lastly a member here that's SELLING lube is a vendor just like any other, and should be able to stand up to a person mentioning having a problem with their product. Actually a vendor that's also a forum member has a chance to answer posts about their product, whereas if the lube was made by a non-forum member they wouldn't have a chance to chime in to either offer help, or defend themselves, whichever is needed.

[303Guy]

Is lube left in the grooves always a problem? What do the targets say? I've found boolits with all the lube in the grooves and am thinking that if all the boolits carry all their lube then there shouldn't be a problem. Just wondering?