How fast can you push a .458 cast bullet?

[AbitNutz]

I'm rechambering my Lyman 1878 (Pedersoli Sharps 1877 copy) from 45-70 to 450 Nitro-Express. I didn't consider the 45-100, 110, 120, etc because I love British big game cartridges and always wanted a 450NE. Both the 45-70 and 450NE are .458.

The Lyman has a forged receiver and a cut rifled barrel and I think is one of the best looking rifles I have. The quality and workmanship surprised me as I didn't think an Italian clone was this good. Making this a 450NE just adds to the exotic appeal to for me.

Ammunition, Brass and dies are readily available, if not the least expensive in the world. Chamber reamers can also be had with no problem. My gunsmith is on board with this and I'll be dropping it off in a couple of weeks.

I opened a ticket with Lyman and they told me to use the 45-70 loading data for the lever action Marlin 1895 and Winchester 1886. The max pressure for those are 43,000 cup. The 450NE's is at 39,000 cup. So all things are good for handling the extra boom.

I am a little concerned about the stock holding up and I'm likely to do a really good bedding job to help it out as much as I can. Maybe an Acraglas with atomized aluminum (aluminum powder) mix.

Anyway, back to velocity. How fast can I push a cast .458 cast bullet? As I said, the barrel is cut rifled and is slick as snot. It never leads up on me and is crazy accurate.

[Cowboy_Dan]

My hypothesis is thst if you do things just right, you can get j-word velocity with accuracy and no leading. I haven't gone for HV with cast in rifles yet, but I understand that larger bores are more forgiving. Good luck, and I am jealous of the N.E. rifle, I have wanted one of those in a SxS for a long time.

[Tatume]

You can run cast bullets at speeds that your shoulder will not appreciate. My hunting loads make 2250 fps.

[leftiye]

What he said, it ain't how much you can accelerate the boolit, it's how much acceleration you can stand. Sanity makes a difference.

[AbitNutz]

I'm mostly sane...but not completely. I love to shoot big bore rifles. I have a Ruger No1 in 450/400 Nitro Express that I love to pound me. Yes, after a 5 or so rounds I do flee to the relative comfort of a sissy pad my wife made for me but I'll shoot as many rounds as I have with me.

I have an RCBS mold in .458 that is a flat nose 300gr gas check that I may have a go with. The standard factory load is a 480gr at 2200fps. However that is in a 24" barrel. I'm really curious to blow one over my chronograph from the Lyman's 30" barrel and see what the chrono reads.

One weird thing I have noticed is that most sources, including Hornday, list the rim thickness of the 45-70 as .070 and the 450NE at .040 but the boxes of Hornady 450NE and 45-70 that I have both measure out to the same, .061. I wrote them to see what's up. I understand that a difference in rim thickness may right that the barrel be set back a thread or so.

[oldred]

The Lyman has a forged receiver.

That's not exactly correct, the shape of these receivers is too complex for a forging thus they are made two different ways, strong steel castings (not to be confused with weaker iron castings) and CNC machined from alloy steel stock. Either method is just fine and quite strong but I think the Lyman is machined from steel stock, either method is more expensive than forging (for large production runs anyway) and every bit as strong so it does not matter in the least.

[flint45]

I have got up to 2150 fps in a marlin micro groove with 300gc good acc. no leading. Also in a shilo sharps .45-70 2225 with 300 gr. and 2023fps with a 378gr. kramer boolit with a gas check.

[AbitNutz]

Now were talkin'!

[MT Chambers]

Well, I'll be the contrarian, that action was designed in the 1860s, most feel that BP pressures are the best way to go, I would not load that action to .450 Nitro Express levels, a Ruger #1, yes!

[seaboltm]

In my Marlin 1895 I have loaded to a bit over 1800 fps with the Lee 405 grain boolit. Recoil was brisk, to say the least. My regular load is cruising at 1500 fps. I can handle the recoil, that is much hotter than the old black powder loads, and I confident it would put the end to just about everything on the planet.

[bhn22]

There's no physical limit to any object maximum velocity, except the ones imposed by the propulsion methods, or those imposed by performance parameters.

[Duckiller]

To answer your original question, if it is heavy probably a lot faster than your shoulder wants it to go.

[AbitNutz]

MT Chambers...you may be a contrarian on other things but not about this one. I agree with you a 100% and so does Lyman. They told me specifically that loading to the 43,000 CUP max for the Marlin 1895 and the Winchester 1886 in 45-70 was all good but to never use the loading data for the Ruger No.1 or Siamese Mauser. They said that in bold and caps. They flat stated that the action was not strong enough to handle that kind of pressure. There was no wishy washy or ambiguity about their statement. I was expecting a response like, "only use factory ammo" but nope. They flat said...Lever action 45-70 data good. Ruger data BAD!

So the 450 NE is actually a bit below the 45-70 lever action data so...we're good and I'm happy.

[dh2]

I can push a .287 boolit 2400fps in a 7mm Mauser with no leading. I see no reason why (as long as my shoulder can take it) I am working with my .458 Win. Mag. and a .459 inch 535gr slug I am thinking 2400fps may be a pit much, on me but I believe it will not take near that speed to hurt some thing on the other end.

[AbitNutz]

What's that old joke? One end kills, the other end cripples.

[stubert]

I was pushing a 500 grain cast with gas check out of a Ruger # 1 in 458 Lott. I got up to 2206 fps with no leading. Only problem I had was flinching.

[popper]

Only problem I had was flinching. Only flinching? 12 ga. slugs make me SORE.

[stubert]

Flinching and black and blue brusies. Could only shoot 2 shots before I started to flinch. Sold the gun. There aren't many elephants here in New York.

[Pilgrim]

Folks have hinted at it but the velocity question is pretty easy to answer...1) If the rifle is mounted on wheels you can most likely have the flatest shooting .450 NE in history, 2) If you have to hold it, the velocity limit will be most likely beyond your physical ability to tolerate it. There was a good reason the old NE's were in the 12# - 13# range for the lighter rifles, the "heavy" cartridges were up to 20 + #. Oh yeah, the .450 NE is/was not considered a heavy.

[wmitty]

stubert

I saw a fella down here with your Lott... he was using it to hunt armadillos.