How fast can you push a .458 cast bullet?

[leftiye]

So then it would kill the 'Dillo even if it bounced off? Or maybe, so then the 'Dillo did the bouncing off. (There was a thread here recently about a guy getting hit in the head with a bullet that bounced off of an armadillo).

[AbitNutz]

I'm looking at an LBT 350-400gr spitzer, gas check. I'm thinking that would have a really good BC... for a lead bullet. I know a 450 NE could push that down a 30 inch barrel faster than the bullet could stand. I just wonder where that limit is. 2000fps? 2300fps?

[Sagebrush7]

I hotrodded a Ruger M77 458 Win that would shoot clover leafs with a 500 grain cast. After many headaches and a nose bleed at the range one day I sold it! Also found out all the Trex had died!

[AbitNutz]

It's still fun to go to the range and crack off a few rounds of my Ruger No.1 450-400 Nitro Express. Usually, someone is next to me with an AR/AK something. Trex maybe be dead but not forgotten. I love big bore's. Next time they hold that safari rifle shoot, I may attend.

[rosewood]

I wonder that since you are using a 30" barrel, if you could go with a much slower powder than what is normally listed for the 450NE. It might get you the desired velocities at a lower pressure. I would think if you go with a gas check boolit, you could easily push over 2k without any boolit issues.

[montana_charlie]

I don't see the difference between the 450 Nitro Express cartridge and the .45/120.

Both hold a .458 bullet.
Both are rimmed, straight taper cases.
And, both are 3.25 inches long.

There is no established SAAMI spec (to look at) for either chamber, so how do they differ?

CM


BTW:
Pedersoli literature states their receivers (for several rifles, including the Sharps) are forged.

[AbitNutz]

I don't think there is much difference in ballistics between the 450 NE and the 45-120. The 450NE is a little wider at the base being .550 compared to .500 for the 45-120. Beyond that, there pretty much the same. I just happen to prefer the 450 NE. It was never a factor of one versus the other, since they're almost the same. I just like British dangerous game cartridges. I just thought it a bit more exotic. Brass and dies seem to be equally available. The 450 NE has been loaded mostly with smokeless powder while the 45-120 was principally a black powder round.

[montana_charlie]

My question was aimed at determining the difference in the chambers ... not performance or ballistic variations.
In other words, how much, and from where, does metal need to be removed to turn a 45/XX chamber into 450 Nitro Express?
I believe that has been adequately answered.

[MikeS]

That's not exactly correct, the shape of these receivers is too complex for a forging thus they are made two different ways, strong steel castings (not to be confused with weaker iron castings) and CNC machined from alloy steel stock. Either method is just fine and quite strong but I think the Lyman is machined from steel stock, either method is more expensive than forging (for large production runs anyway) and every bit as strong so it does not matter in the least.

I would love to know where you get your info from? I have yet to ever hear of a shape being too complex to be made from a forging. I used to be in the machinery business and we used lots of drop forgings. When we lost our supplier of forgings, only then did we go to steel castings for some of our parts, which we made with investment castings (lost wax casting) that made a raw casting that was much closer to what the finished part was like than the original forgings were like. They could be using square blocks that are forgings, then machine the action out of them the same way they would machine it from a block of steel, there's no rule that a forging has to follow every exterior shape of a part being made, if it's a complex shape as the Sharps receivers are, then the forging could be made much more blocky. Depending on the grade of steel they start with, if it's a drop forged block of that steel rather than bar stock of the same grade steel, the forging is going to be much stronger.