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Thread: .250/.257 Cartridges to .25ACP/.25 Stevens Diameters from 5.7x28mm once fired brass.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    .250/.257 Cartridges to .25ACP/.25 Stevens Diameters from 5.7x28mm once fired brass.

    Gentleman,
    For the Past many months i have chronicling my experiments making .25 Stevens and Lengthened .25ACP cases from .22 Hornet Brass.

    Lately I have been SUCCESSFUL in reforming a Shorter Rimless Candidate Case to my needs.

    This is the 5.7x28mm Rimless 'once fired' Brass case.

    Here is a photo of my 5.7x28mmRimmless Reforming to 6.35, or 6.52, x28mmSR basic cases.



    Tools used and Stage samples of resizing 5.7x28mm Cartridge cases.
    Back Row From Left: 5.7x28mm Shell Holder; .25ACP Shell Holder; Small Primer Pocket Swage Punch; Stripper cup with 3/16" Fender Washer attached; First Stage (.300") Carbide Resizing die; Second Stage (.288") Carbide Resizing die; Third Stage (.276"/.25ACP) Carbide Sizing die. Front Row from Left: 5.7x28mmRimless Case as Received; Neck Expanded using a .2500" diameter punch; First Stage Resize; Second Stage Resize; Third stage resize before removing Displaced/sheared bras ring form extractor groove; Finished Resized 6.35x28mmSR basic case.

    These Cases are reasonable in availability and affordability at this time.

    The tooling is reasonable in price as Lee Will Custom open a Standard .25ACP Carbide Sizing die to the desire dimension for a charge of $30.00 per Die and Diameter, if you do not have the die Lee will Sell one for $28.98 with Shipping extra.

    Shell Holder(s) are Cheap.

    The RCBS Combo 2 "Primer Pocket Swaging Tool Kit" is about $60.00 as of last I looked.

    A 3/16 inch nominal Bore Fender washer is also Cheap.

    A Suitable Size and length Pin Punch must be modified from Commercial available ones.
    I used a 6"x3/16" Roll pin Punch turned in a lathe to taper the tip down to about .175" to clear the tapered inside of the Resized case and the body machined to clear the top threads of the Lee sizing die (the punch is use to remove the sized case from the die as it must be sized down to the Top of the Rim.

    These Cases are factory Coated to reduce friction and the Coating seems to survive through my Multiple step Sizing/forming process.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 12-07-2015 at 12:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    I had idly wondered how you lapped the carbide sizing ring when I read your post in the rimfire section. Thanks for clearing that up.

    It does sound like a reasonably inexpensive way to make unobtainable cases.

    Robert

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    I Am Placing an order for one bag (1000 ea. Once Fired Cases) of 5.7x28mm Brass for Reforming.
    The List price is shown as $58 plus.

    I think these will keep me busy for a While.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

    As of Wednesday, the 1000 piece 'Once Fired" case order is on the way from "Monmouth Brass" for $72.46 including shipping and Insurance. Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 07-30-2015 at 12:59 AM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    More progress on this project.
    The bag of 1000 "Once Fired" empty 5.7x28mm cases arrived.
    Found a sample batch (about 50) de-primed with a little difficulty, then my Lee Universal Decapper Broke!
    Looking at the broken pin tip I noticed it was worn down over most of its length. checked with a Dial Caliper and the tip now measures .060"-.062" and the little piece near the shank measures about .070"-.080" depending on where I measure.

    Lee says they NOW make the pins as a single piece item out of 'Stressproof' (1144) Steel and are TAPERED from a .062" tip end to .080" at the 'shank' end, the shank now measures about .203" diameter.

    I find the New design will stop partially in the Flash Hole of these cartridges and the primer cup is NOT knocked free to drop. So I unscrew the de-cap die, insert a 1/16" (.062") pin punch and 'swat' it with a hammer to knock the cup loose and release the case from my Shell holder.

    I looks like I will be making some custom de-cap pins to fit these Cases.
    I an now drilling the Flash Holes with a 5/64" drill Bit to get future clearance to the Lee Tapered de-cap pins AFTER getting the Spent primers out.

    Best Regarsds,
    Chev. William

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Sample 6.35x32mmSR Cartridge with 74 grain Lead RFN GC .252" Dia. Bullet.

    I am finding variations in the final reformed length of the cases with Case length varying form about 1.215" minimum to 1.251" maximum so far.
    Since I am thinking of listing the design with a 32mm (1.259") maximum case length and a Tolerance band of +0.0/-1.016mm (+0.0"/-0.040"), almost all of the cases so far would be 'usable', especially if no Crimp is applied (OK for Single Shot use but not good for lever action Rifles or handguns of either Semi-Automatic or Revolver Design).
    Overall length with either a 50 grain FMJ or a 74 grain Lead RFN GC bullet is running 1.500" to 1.510" but I am thinking of specifying 42mm (1.653+") to allow for Spire Tip bullets with a long radius ogive.
    The 1.500" length seats the 74 grain Deeply into the case so maybe seating it out further would be a good Idea.

    I do run the loaded cartridges through my sizing die to Insure No Bulges in these Experimental Loads. I will experiment with not doing that AFTER I have developed Loading data other than the Starting Level one so far.

    STARTING Load Recipes so far:
    1. 74 grain bullet; 1.0 grain; Bullseye; WSP primer; 1.50" nominal OAL.
    2. 74 grain bullet; 1.1 grain; Bullseye; WSP primer; 1.50" nominal OAL.
    3. 50 grain bullet; 1.2 grain; Bullseye; WSP primer; 1.50" nominal OAL.
    4. 50 grain bullet; 1.3 grain; Bullseye; WSP primer; 1.50" nominal OAL.
    5. 50 grain bullet: 1.4 grain; Bullseye; WSP primer; 1.50" nominal OAL.
    6. 50 grain bullet; 1.5 grain; Bullseye; WSP primer; 1.50' nominal OAL.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 12-07-2015 at 12:18 AM. Reason: Correct Typos and add more information.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Today I submitted my "Mildcat" cartridge design to "Ammoguide International" under the name "6.35x32mmSR STEWART".
    Maximum Case trim length is specified as 1.250" +0.005/-0.040".
    Maximum overall length (spire point bullet) is 1.653".
    Bullet intended range: 35 grain JHP to 120 grain Spire point.

    Now to wait and hope the design is accepted for Listing.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    That's great work, Chev. William. I have a baggie of 5.7 x 28 range pickups around here somewhere and am glad to hear that it can be swaged into a .25 Stevens Centerfire. I had tried the .22 Hornet route, but these more modern cases might have better primer pocket reinforcement. I used them way back when in a .25 Stevens Low Wall with a centerfire breechblock, and as I recall, it wasn't hard to go overpressure with loadings.

    So how do they shoot? Have you fired any groups?

    My own experiments with nail driver blanks have kind of stalled with this move I made, but I hope to get back to them when I'm unpacked and organized.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    The Center fire Stevens '44' conversion and the Stevens 'Favorite' Center fire conversion are Still in the hands of my gunsmith.
    Rim Fire Favorites in .22 and .25 are Back and have been test fired only so far. I have been 'short of extra Funds' for trips to my Local Commercial Range as I have had no work this year yet.
    As yet I have no Chronograph 'kit' I can take with me and set up at the Range so Velocity measurements are still a no-go for me. I did buy a small Chronograph on sale but still need a mounting for it.

    Frustrating but typical for 'retirement' on low fixed/declining purchasing power income stream (Social Security, Mil & VA payments, and two small private sector retirements). Bills and taxes grow faster than any 'cost fo living' increase in SS and Mil/VA payments. the rest are fixed annuities.
    At least for now I have VA service connected Healthcare available.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 10-12-2015 at 04:23 PM. Reason: correct typos.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    "Ammoguide International" Web Site Added cartridge Number 950 to their Cartridge Database on September 1st. It is my FIRST Published Mildcat/Wildcat Cartridge Design and is titled "6.35x32mmSR STEWART".
    Now To Develop and Publish Loads for it.
    I am Still Waiting upon the Completion of my Stevens 44 Modified Action converted to Center Fire with both its 30 Long Colt Barrel and a re-purposed .25 R.F/6.35x32mmSR Barrel.
    This combination will be used for Load Development up to about 25,000psi (similar to modern RF pressures).
    I can use a Stevens Favorite Action converted to Center fire with a .25 R.F./6.35x32mmSR modified chamber Barrel for low to moderate load development.
    Eventually I will need to put together a stronger action to develop loads up to the present 50,000psi boundary (same as the Parent Cartridge Pressure limit).
    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 09-06-2015 at 05:13 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Sunday I spent some time Expanding Necks of 100 Cases; 50 each .22 Hornet New PPU Brass and 50 each 5.7x28mmFN Once Fired FNB Brass.

    The Hornet Brass took Three to Four "insert-extract" cycles to expand them with 5 cases 'lost due to 'Bellows Folding' of the Shoulder area.

    The 5.7 Brass took One "insert-extract" cycle to expand them; Much Faster work with less Effort to boot.

    I then Resized the 50 FNB cases via a three stage Swaging process using sizing Dies to get the Body Diameter down to .276" of the .25ACP/6.35 Browning and .25 Stevens cases, which the 6.35x32mmSR Shares.

    The Case length Grew with the Swaging form a nominal 28mm at start to nominal 32mm at final condition.
    I had specified a Maximum case length of 32mm (1.260") with a length tolerance of +0.0/-1.016mm (+0.0/-0.040") so all the cases may be used as formed so far. The Trim to length (if ever Needed) is 31.75mm (1.250").

    After Swaging, the Flash hole MUST be drilled out to clear a Decapping pin tip as it shrinks in diameter during the Swaging process. Personally I use a 5/64" drill Bit for this task in a Battery powered Portable Drill Motor.

    This set of tasks took me a Couple of hours Time investment.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Completed Neck expansion of 800 Hornet cases to .250" size. Now to Get them reformed to .276 body diameter, then Trim for the various lengths.

    Now have 400 of the 5.7x28mm expanded in the Neck/shoulder to .250" nominal and 600 to go.
    Current projects are:
    1. Lathe cutting the 'Brass Roll' off the Formed Hornet Brass.
    2. Reform the 5.7x27 expanded neck cases to 6.35x32mm sizes.
    3. Continue neck/shoulder expansion of the Remaining 5.7x28mm cases.
    4. Continue refroming the 5.7x28mm into 6.35x32mmSR.

    These are 'Keeping me out of Trouble' during the Local Hot spells, interspersed with Rain/Thunderstorms and windy times.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. Willaim
    Last edited by Chev. William; 11-25-2015 at 01:04 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    I have been thinking of Possibilities based upon my "6.35x32mmSR Stewart" Wildcat case.
    Trimming one to 1.135" I tried it in a chamber originally for the ".25 Stevens" and It Fit.
    Now I need to trim several formed cases to 1.125" (28.575mm) or 28.6mm Nominal Case Length.
    I have proposed this as A 'Wildcat' named "6.35x28.6mmSR STEWART" to "Ammoguide International" for consideration to add to their 'Cartridge Master Data Base'.

    Lets hope it is Approved.

    Using 'QuickLOAD" to calculate some loads (estimate of Cartridge Gross internal Volume = 12.2gr H2O). At Sonic Muzzle Speed out of a 24" barrel with a resized Lyman 257420 Bullet of 65gr, Calculated MAP is 9738psi for a velocity of 1127fps takes 1.77gr charge of Bullseye.
    Pushing faster, QuickLOAD Calculates a Bullseye charge of 5.28gr in a 24" Rifle Barrel behind a jacketed 50gr bullet develops Calculated MAP of 49915psi and 2345fps MV.
    These Are Both at a Cartridge overall Length of 1.400"(35.56mm).

    Sounds like it will develop into a Very Frugal Varmint Killer at moderate ranges yet be loadable to get rid of Pests Quietly.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    The Proposed "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart" to "Ammoguide International" to add to their "Cartridge Master Data base. Now Starts the Wait to see if it is accepted.

    Thinking, I believe I will try rough trimming the case length at the intermediate sizing step (~.288" body diameter) to hopefully avoid the tapered wall interference which seems to occur at the final size of .276" body diameter.

    Intriguing process possibility.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

    Added 20151125: The "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart" Cartridge has been Added to the "Ammoguide Interactive" 'Cartridge Master Data base' as there cartridge number 958. Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 11-25-2015 at 12:53 PM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    I now have 90 "6.35x28.6mmSR" cases Trimmed and burrs removed. Still need to "bell" the Mouths before starting loading Process. This is out of a Random batch of "6.35x32mmSR" as I had ten that measured close to maximum length of the 32mm design that I did not Trim down.
    Debating with myself to go through another 50 of the 32mm cases to find ten that measure 'short' to use as Candidates to fill out my 28.6mm Lot.

    These 28.6mm Length cases still have the FNB original polymer coating on them so cannot be neck annealed. I do not currently have a practical process for removing the polymer coating after final forming so it remains in place for the time being.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 11-25-2015 at 12:54 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy

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    Would tumbling the cases with SS pins remove the polymer coating?
    I haven't received my modified sizing dies from Lee yet so I don't want to clean my 5.7 cases yet, would like to keep the coating intact until I run them thru the sizing dies.
    "An armed society is a polite society" R.A. Heinlein 1907 - 1988

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    Gar,
    I could send you a few "6.35x28.6mmSR" cases and a few "6.35x32mmSR" cases to Try that Process on.
    The 28.6 cases are trimmed to within 1.125" +.003/-.003" and the 32mm cases would be of the low to middle lengths but within the Tolerance zone specified for this case length (1.260"+0.0/-.040").
    Chev. William

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy

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    Yes, go ahead and sent me a few, I'll tumble them with the SS pins and see how it works.
    I don't know what the lead time is on my dies so it may be awhile before I have usable 5.7 cases to work on.
    PS, I'll send the finished cases back to you.
    Gar
    "An armed society is a polite society" R.A. Heinlein 1907 - 1988

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    Gar,
    21 pieces out for Pickup by USPS today.
    includes one piece of 6.35x28.6mmSR Dummy Round with one of your Lubed and sized 52 grain bullet seated to ~1.395" OAL for you to try in your firearms.
    A first class Letter is enclosed also.
    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    Great News Received Today via a Notification from "ammoguide.com" posted at 0820: The "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart" 'Mildcat' Cartridge was added to their "Cartridge Master Data Base" as Cartridge Number 958. this is my Second Published Cartridge Description/Design.

    What a Nice piece of News to receive before Thanksgiving!

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check