Winchester Levergun Book(s)?

[TXGunNut]

I guess it's official, I'm a Winchester collector. Big fan of the 94, especially the early ones, but quite honestly I like them all. Learning a little bit here and there but I'm looking for a well-researched and useful book on the subject. I'll probably pick up R L Wilson's book but a book by Renneberg on the 94 came up on a search and it looks good to me as well. I see there's a Blue Book dealing with Winchesters as well but it is probably due for an update.
Any favorites of the more experienced collectors around here? I'm interested in a detailed history of the evolution of these rifles as well as an explanation of the collectors' perspective. I spent several hours studying the Winchester collection in Cody a few years back and want to know more next time I visit there. Will also come in handy next time a sweet little Winchester tries to follow me home.

[pietro]

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The Renneberg book is one of the best references available about the Winchester 1894/94 - with a LOT of documented examples & pics, of both the rifles, and the various features (markings, sight positioning & more).




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[TXGunNut]

I'm thinking the Renneberg book is out of print judging by the prices of the used books. Hopefully they'll do another printing but I'll keep my eyes peeled for one.

[w30wcf]

www.georgemadis.com

w30wcf

[fouronesix]

Yep, The Winchester Book by Madis is a standard. Also, the model specific books by Pirkle are excellent.

[alamogunr]

Not necessarily a book for collectors, but "A Winchester Lever Legacy" by Clyde Williamson is very interesting. Lots of info on various cartridges that different Winchester lever guns were chambered. Also stories of hunting with lever rifles.

[TXGunNut]

When was the Madis book last revised? Website a little vague about that.

Looks like 1985, wonder if the website is actually selling those books?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Not necessarily a book for collectors, but "A Winchester Lever Legacy" by Clyde Williamson is very interesting. Lots of info on various cartridges that different Winchester lever guns were chambered. Also stories of hunting with lever rifles.

Yes, it is for the shooter rather than the collector, but it is a superb great doorstep of a book, and I've got mine. The author also says "Well, hell, I like 'em all!", but it is entirely on the Browning Winchesters, i.e. excluding the 66 and 73. The folksy style and western anecdotes and artifacts can be deceptive, for they conceal an exhaustive and well documented load development that wouldn't disgrace any of our premier ballistic authorities. It is out of print, and an expensive book on www.bookfinder.com, which is part of my life support system. If there is anybody working for a republishing house out there, please find the rights owner and reprint this book!

I'd hate to seem pernickety about spelling etc. with someone I agree with, but the title is "The Winchester Lever Legacy". "A... " might sabotage your chances of finding it on a web search.

Also out of print, large and extremely good is "Winchester: the Gun that Won the West" by Harold F. Williamson (no relation so far as I know.) This is a company history rather than a detailed technological work, but has much information on the people and policies involved. It was written as a result of Olin Industries making their archives available to Yale University, with a grant for research, and the author thanks, among many others, went to Edwin Pugsley, the company's general superintendent with 40 years of service, and his own five-person research staff. This one sells amazingly cheaply for what it is.

[alamogunr]

Yes, it is for the shooter rather than the collector, but it is a superb great doorstep of a book, and I've got mine. The author also says "Well, hell, I like 'em all!", but it is entirely on the Browning Winchesters, i.e. excluding the 66 and 73. The folksy style and western anecdotes and artifacts can be deceptive, for they conceal an exhaustive and well documented load development that wouldn't disgrace any of our premier ballistic authorities. It is out of print, and an expensive book on www.bookfinder.com, which is part of my life support system. If there is anybody working for a republishing house out there, please find the rights owner and reprint this book!

I'd hate to seem pernickety about spelling etc. with someone I agree with, but the title is "The Winchester Lever Legacy". "A... " might sabotage your chances of finding it on a web search.

Also out of print, large and extremely good is "Winchester: the Gun that Won the West" by Harold F. Williamson (no relation so far as I know.) This is a company history rather than a detailed technological work, but has much information on the people and policies involved. It was written as a result of Olin Industries making their archives available to Yale University, with a grant for research, and the author thanks, among many others, went to Edwin Pugsley, the company's general superintendent with 40 years of service, and his own five-person research staff. This one sells amazingly cheaply for what it is.

Thanks for the correction. I had to go to my non-attached shop where I keep all my gun related stuff to confirm the author. I should have written it down.

I just ordered "Winchester: the Gun that Won the West" through Abebooks.
http://www.abebooks.com/

This is another service you might consider when looking for books. I still had the receipt for Lever Legacy in the book. I paid $45 about 15 years ago. Cheapest I found just now was almost $100 with shipping.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Abebooks, Amazon etc. are among the many third party sites and independent booksellers that figure in Bookfinder. I have heard some people suggest that they don't include all the books available via Amazon etc., but if true, I think that is uncommon.

I bought "The Winchester Lever Legacy" in post-liberation Kuwait for much the same price as you, and I was surprised to be called in to the Customs office to explain it. They hardly ever opened packages, and why would they care about Winchesters when the country was afloat with liberated Kalashnikovs? It turned out that the customs man knew I worked a short walk away, and just wanted to talk about the book and give me Arab coffee and cakes. My copy is signed "Snooky", the author's nickname, and people are looking for extremely fancy prices for those on Bookfinder, but I think he signed quite a lot of them.

[fouronesix]

I too have the Williamson book. An interesting read but I wouldn't take the loads, techniques, testing, methods or anecdotes to the bank. Kind of light on best available scientifically verified data.

A better book for loads and techniques would be Venturino's book- Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West.

[smokeywolf]

All the Harold F. Williamson books are good. My favorite deals with the company's history; "WINCHESTER" THE GUN THAT WON THE WEST".

George Madis' book, "The Winchester Book"
Don't know if Patti, Georges widow is still selling "The Winchester Book". Used to communicate with her regularly. As of a couple of years ago, she was still selling them. When George was still alive he would hand sign every copy.

"Winchester Repeating Arms Company" by Herb Houze

[TXGunNut]

I have MV's book, it's a treasure in it's own right but as the title suggests it's more about shooting than the guns themselves. I think he could write a fine book on the history of more than a few leverguns (and may have!) but much of what I'm looking for is beyond the scope of that book.
I'll make inquiries @ Madis' site, I'd rather buy it from his family than a reseller.
I have a confession to make, I was doing a little research this evening and discovered I'd neglected to enter my circa 1921 94 SRC in 32WS in my log. I remedied that by dragging out my older 94's just to verify numbers and such.
I think I'll get Wilson's book as a coffee table book. I like his Ruger book, still use it for a reference now and then.
Renneberg looks like something I may be lucky enough to stumble across someday. I seem to be focusing in 1894's/94's so his book may be useful as well as interesting. I have a local used book store that doesn't seem to like guns much, might be a good place to look. They have an awesome cooking section, everyone in there is skinny. Go figure.

[smokeywolf]

TXGunNut,

George and Patti Madis used to live just South of you on a 140 acre spread near Brownsboro.

[TXGunNut]

TXGunNut,

George and Patti Madis used to live just South of you on a 140 acre spread near Brownsboro.

Wow, just a couple hours away. Sounds like a nice little road trip. I'll send them an e-mail, will give them your regards.

[Tim357]

Also, while not a collector's book, Sam Fadala penned a tome near thirty years ago titled along the lines of Winchester's 94, Americas favorite rifle. Or some such. Wish I could find a copy.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Wow, just a couple hours away. Sounds like a nice little road trip. I'll send them an e-mail, will give them your regards.

It sounds from Post 4 that George has departed leaving no forwarding address. Does anybody know for sure? It comes to us all, and plenty of brilliantly successful people in their day don't leave books that serve as a memorial. I've heard his "Winchester Dates of Manfacture" criticized, but I don't think anybody has extracted better from the records Winchester kept.

[smokeywolf]

Yes BiS, George passed some years ago. George's dates of manufacture came from different sources within the company than those that today contradict his data, which come from the comparatively recently discovered polishing room's records.
Unfortunately, those who became involved with introducing the polishing room data did so with an inference that George's information was just plain patently wrong, rather than sourced from a different department and step in the manufacturing process. Although the new data is of great value and historical importance, it seemed that some of the methods used in introducing it had to do with one-uping George Madis.

I know that some of the polishing room records are available from Ms. Pauline Muerrle http://www.paulinemuerrle.com/ . She was the last engraver to work in Winchester's Custom Shop. She wrote a book on the company, but I have neither bought nor seen it and can't offer an opinion on it's desirability. I do know that she has in the recent past, offered engraving services out of her own shop.

[Clay M]

The West Arms Library Winchester Complete by Bill Westbook is a good one to have ,if you can find a copy. It is a red colored book. I am sure it is probably out of print. I also have all the ones mentioned above..

Actually Amazon has a copy listed for $95

[TXGunNut]

It sounds from Post 4 that George has departed leaving no forwarding address. Does anybody know for sure? It comes to us all, and plenty of brilliantly successful people in their day don't leave books that serve as a memorial. I've heard his "Winchester Dates of Manfacture" criticized, but I don't think anybody has extracted better from the records Winchester kept.

Gathered that George was no longer with us, was hoping someone was still selling books from the site. Steve Camp's excellent Hi-Powers and Handguns site is today run by his widow Sandy, for example.