New Ruger Precision rifle

[Hannibal]

I'm waiting to see if the accuracy claims are true. Heard this sort of thing before, rarely observed it on the range.

[Larry Gibson]

In most cases a barrel over 20 inches in 308 isn't necessary. They have proven that all the powder burns in the 20 inches of barrel so there is no velocity gain. They also use the 10 twist because it is meant to shoot 168-208 grain match bullets.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have the pressure tests with the traces to prove it. The powder continues to burn and push the bullet faster well after 20". Otherwise how is it .308W Palma barrels push 3000 +/- fps with 155s in a 28 - 30" barrel? Show me where you get that from any 20" barrel in .308W?

BTW; as far as accuracy goes my .308W 26, 27.6 and 31" barrels are just as accurate as my 18 and 20" barrels but the longer barrels give much higher velocity which gives advantages down range. Also you might do some night shooting and watch the burning powder ball of flame come out of 18 and 20" barrels while not so much in 22, 24 and 26" barrels and hardly any muzzle flash from 28 - 31" barrels. The flash and ball of flame means something is still burning.

Larry Gibson

[Clay M]

My next long range target rifle will be some type of 6.5,either the Lapua or the Creedmoor. It will have a Krieger barrel and be on a standard bolt action platform.
I am sure this Ruger will probably shoot OK, but this rifle is not the form that suits me.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

The following is a list of post-2000 rifles that are worth buying, as compared to a pre-64 Model 70.

1.

2.

3.

Note: Since Bill Sr died, everything Ruger has offered is under bean-counter control, not engineered to be a better product.

Note 2: Or, a fairly blatant copy of something else. Ref: mediocre copy of 1911, AR-15's and this copy of the DPMS.

[Clay M]

If I am going to compete, I have to have the best.Unless it is a factory rifle only event.
I have some factory rifles that are amazing.
I have trained all my life with a standard bolt gun.I am not going to switch to something else at this point.I am too old.
I believe I could get that Ruger to shoot well, but I won't waste the time or money.
If it has a hammer forged barrel like Steyr puts on their rifles, then yes it will shoot.
Do I think it could hang with a standard bolt rifle acquitted with a Krieger barrel?? Maybe in the right hands, but not in my hands..
I am use to a Jewell trigger and a standard bolt gun.

[M-Tecs]

and this copy of the DPMS.

DPMS doen't make a bolt gun nor a Modular Chassis System. What DPMS rifle did Ruger copy?

[Four Fingers of Death]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have the pressure tests with the traces to prove it. The powder continues to burn and push the bullet faster well after 20". Otherwise how is it .308W Palma barrels push 3000 +/- fps with 155s in a 28 - 30" barrel? Show me where you get that from any 20" barrel in .308W?

BTW; as far as accuracy goes my .308W 26, 27.6 and 31" barrels are just as accurate as my 18 and 20" barrels but the longer barrels give much higher velocity which gives advantages down range. Also you might do some night shooting and watch the burning powder ball of flame come out of 18 and 20" barrels while not so much in 22, 24 and 26" barrels and hardly any muzzle flash from 28 - 31" barrels. The flash and ball of flame means something is still burning.

Larry Gibson

Possibly with factory ammo, the gains are not so great as with reloads developed specifically for the longer barrels. The F class type shooters generally reload, wheras Tactical shooters are more likely (although not exclusively of course) use factory ammo.

[garym1a2]

All they need to do is put the bolt handle on the left side of the rifle and chamber it in 7x308.

[Larry Gibson]

Test rifle in American Rifleman showed excellent accuracy with factory ammo in 6.5 Creedmore. Also looks to be very well thought out and is adaptable to a lot of AR products. Also has an excellent fully adjustable trigger. Supposedly will work with some M14 Mags. Waiting for 28 - 30+" Palma contour barrel in .308W with 13 or 14" twist.

ORRRRRRR

Have goodsteel re-barrel with a 30" Palma contour barrel with 14" twist in 30 XCB.......

Larry Gibson

[garym1a2]

Here is a decent reference on the subject. If you are a distance shooter you want every fps you can get. Under 300 yards you will be hard to tell the difference. http://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-...ty-28-to-16-5/

In most cases a barrel over 20 inches in 308 isn't necessary. They have proven that all the powder burns in the 20 inches of barrel so there is no velocity gain. They also use the 10 twist because it is meant to shoot 168-208 grain match bullets.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Usually F class shooters will have totally custom guns and not bother with factory rifles. Te problem is going to be the aftermarket accesories for the ruger.

Most guys entering F Class are buying Savage Rifles which are around the same price as this gun and excellent conventionally styled guns. This gun offers some distinct advantages over those guns as far as adaptability.

I am just reading the article in AR as we speak. But so far it looks to me like they did their homework. I know Mark Gurney and he is enthusiastic and pretty sharp when it comes to giving the public what they want.

As far as accessories are concerned the gun will take many AR add ons as well as common Muzzle Brakes, Suppressors, Bipods, and any kind of Optic you could possibly want. What more could you want?

What impressed me the most was the fact that this gun is essentially their "American Rifle" action coupled to a pistol grip lower unit that has a mag well. The receiver is machined out of a piece of pre-hardened 4140 not cast as most Ruger Receivers are.

For all of you non machinists out there, using pre-hardened CroMoly insures that the machined dimensions don't change. Cro Moly moves when heat treated, so you get that out of the way and then machine it and you are done, and are holding perfect tolerances on every dimension instead of having to guess which way the thing will move after heat treat. When you are talking about a receiver which will have numerous cutouts it is nearly impossible to predict which dimensions will be affected by heat treat.

We have been doing this since about the mid 80's and the fact that it requires a little more sophisticated tools is a non issue. The end result justifies the extra cost of the tools as it eliminates the cost of heat treat after the fact. The cost of the stock is virtually the same as soft 4140 and the hard stuff machines much better. Most who have machined Cromoly know that it machines like Ship. The hard stuff yields excellent finishes you just have to use Poly Crystalline Diamond cutting tools to get there.

Today this is normal.

Randy

[Larry Gibson]

Possibly with factory ammo, the gains are not so great as with reloads developed specifically for the longer barrels. The F class type shooters generally reload, wheras Tactical shooters are more likely (although not exclusively of course) use factory ammo.

Sorry but the .308W longer Palma barrels were developed with factory ammo as the requirement; 7.62 NATO Spec issue M80 equivalent. The longer barrels had enough velocity gain for the bullets to stay sonic to 1000 yards and the slower twists improved accuracy.

With M80 7.63 I lose right at 100 fps going from 22 to 20" barrels and close to 150 fps with an 18" barrel. I gain 50 - 75 fps going from 22" to 26" barrels and 100+ fps with the 27.6" Palma barrel. The gain from 22" barrels to 30" barrels is close to 250 fps. The difference of 350 fps +/- might not make a difference at 300 yards but at 600 - 1000 yards it makes a substantial difference. Haven't seen any 1000 yard Match, Palma Match shooters or F Class shooters using 20" barrels in any caliber..........unless they were shooting just for S&Gs. Any guess why that Creedmore barrel isn't 20" long if that length barrel is "just as effective"?

Larry Gibson

BTW; only my AR Match rifle doesn't look like a "standard" match rifle of yesteryear. My M1A match rifle, my M1903 National Match Type II, my Savage Comp and my M70 Target still look like regular match rifles of yesteryear and I still compete with them. However, even though I thoroughly enjoy the older styles/types I am not adverse to using anything modern......if it works and a 20" barreled .308W just ain't gonna work for truly long range riflery.

[MBTcustom]

Sorry but the .308W longer Palma barrels were developed with factory ammo as the requirement; 7.62 NATO Spec issue M80 equivalent. The longer barrels had enough velocity gain for the bullets to stay sonic to 1000 yards and the slower twists improved accuracy.

With M80 7.63 I lose right at 100 fps going from 22 to 20" barrels and close to 150 fps with an 18" barrel. I gain 50 - 75 fps going from 22" to 26" barrels and 100+ fps with the 27.6" Palma barrel. The gain from 22" barrels to 30" barrels is close to 250 fps. The difference of 350 fps +/- might not make a difference at 300 yards but at 600 - 1000 yards it makes a substantial difference. Haven't seen any 1000 yard Match, Palma Match shooters or F Class shooters using 20" barrels in any caliber..........unless they were shooting just for S&Gs. Any guess why that Creedmore barrel isn't 20" long if that length barrel is "just as effective"?

Larry Gibson

BTW; only my AR Match rifle doesn't look like a "standard" match rifle of yesteryear. My M1A match rifle, my M1903 National Match Type II, my Savage Comp and my M70 Target still look like regular match rifles of yesteryear and I still compete with them. However, even though I thoroughly enjoy the older styles/types I am not adverse to using anything modern......if it works and a 20" barreled .308W just ain't gonna work for truly long range riflery.

This is true. I build rifles that later come back for a setback. When I lop 1-6 inches off a barrel there is always a significant FPS loss from its former iteration. Barrel length greatly effects speed and muzzle pressure.

Another thing that I can't take such a hard line on, but I have noticed, is that often it is harder to find an excellent load with a short barrel, than it is with a longer barrel.
I believe this has to do with harmonics, (but it could just as easily be explained by barrel weight alone, and the stability that comes to a rifle that is heavier) Like I always say: Weight is the poor mans accurizer.
Understand though, I'm not talking about the difference between 3" groups and .5" groups. It's more like the difference between .8" and .2" groups.

[Clay M]

This is true. I build rifles that later come back for a setback. When I lop 1-6 inches off a barrel there is always a significant FPS loss from its former iteration. Barrel length greatly effects speed and muzzle pressure.

Another thing that I can't take such a hard line on, but I have noticed, is that often it is harder to find an excellent load with a short barrel, than it is with a longer barrel.
I believe this has to do with harmonics, (but it could just as easily be explained by barrel weight alone, and the stability that comes to a rifle that is heavier) Like I always say: Weight is the poor mans accurizer.
Understand though, I'm not talking about the difference between 3" groups and .5" groups. It's more like the difference between .8" and .2" groups.

You may be right on the loads with a short barrels.
My Steyr Tactical .308 has a 20" barrel. It will shoot 1/2 MOA as long as I feed it Norma 202, otherwise
the groups are around an inch

Seems that most of my short barrel Mannlichers are finicky .They will shoot and shoot well, but it took a lot of load development. Probably why people sold them to me. I have a Heym that is a beautiful hunting rifle , but it will only shoot flat base bullets well...But is shoots them very well.The guy I bought it from shot boat tails. It will not shoot boat tails at all.

All of my long range target rifles have at least a 26" barrel.
I like the 26" barrel, it is still fairly easy to carry.

My next target rifle will either be the 6BR or the 6.5X47 Lapua..
Either will do well at 1000 yds..

[Artful]

Here is a decent reference on the subject. If you are a distance shooter you want every fps you can get. Under 300 yards you will be hard to tell the difference. http://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-...ty-28-to-16-5/

Good link


http://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-...ty-28-to-16-5/

[Hannibal]

My biggest beef with the .308 Winchester is that it is NOT easy to retain acceptable velocity for j-word bullet expansion at 300 yds. Which is my personal range limitation at this date. Not completely un-doable, but something to keep in mind.

Moot point if you hunt heavily timbered or hilly terrain.

[Hannibal]

Understand though, I'm not talking about the difference between 3" groups and .5" groups. It's more like the difference between .8" and .2" groups.

.2" groups? Mother of Pearle. I'd about give up my left . . . . YEAH to see THAT on a regular basis in a .30 rifle.

[Artful]

.2" groups? Mother of Pearle. I'd about give up my left . . . . YEAH to see THAT on a regular basis in a .30 rifle.

it's out there - somewhere


Just not close to my shooting lane.

[Clay M]

My biggest beef with the .308 Winchester is that it is NOT easy to retain acceptable velocity for j-word bullet expansion at 300 yds. Which is my personal range limitation at this date. Not completely un-doable, but something to keep in mind.

Moot point if you hunt heavily timbered or hilly terrain.

As far as jacketed bullets for hunting. I use either a 165gr or 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. They seem to expand well at lower velocities..

[Larry Gibson]

In my own 18 - 20" barreled .308Ws over the years I've come to use the Hornady 150 SP or 150 SPBTs for deer and lighter skinned game. With a muzzle velocity of 2570 - 2650 they are very accurate and expand well to 350 - 400 yards yet hold together in deer at 25+ yards. I found the Nosler BTs didn't hold together very well on the closer range shots though they are an excellent choice if closer shots aren't expected.

Larry Gibson