Gold

[Handloader109]

As far as investment, if you happened to have bought gold in 1980, you wouldn't have been able to break even again until 2006. Some investment. If you have bought in past year or three, you're out of luck too......

It is a speculation pretty metal. Btw, how are you going to barter that coin and get change back? You going to swap it for a bottle of water? Or a tin of beans? Or even a box of bullets?

[Bman1954]

Gold and silver are held as a store of wealth not an investment.Paper and digital currency are backed by only faith in government and central banks.God bless those that have that kind of faith. Craig

[lightman]

I've read this whole thread with interest. I've contributed to a 401K for my whole career and I'm near the point where I have to do something with it. I have a shooting and hunting buddy in the business and have been getting free investment advice for about 10 years. I've profited from this advice and it has been sort of an unspoken agreement that I will do business with him when I have to roll it over, and I plan to. Its been interesting reading all of your opinions.

[snowwolfe]

I am another who doubts we will ever have a break down of basic services but the one thing I picked up from this thread is I would rather have a nice supply of Glock 9mm's instead of gold or silver.

[Four-Sixty]

If SHTF, I think you could barter a lot better with booze. You can buy a lot of booze with what it'd cost you to put away an ounce of gold. And, you can divide up booze into very small increments, very easily. For that matter, hoard toilet paper!

I would prefer also to have a shop full of tools, books and materials so that I could make stuff. As an example, if commerce stops, and you have the right glue for fixing a woman's shoes, you will be a guy who is in demand!

I bet some folks would pay a lot of silver for some toilet paper after SHTF.

[sparky45]

I bet some folks would pay a lot of silver for some toilet paper after SHTF.

I think you can wipe that idea off the blackboard, cornhusks, leaves, and junk mail will rule the day.
You keep the toilet paper and I'll keep my Silver.

[sparky45]

Gold and silver are held as a store of wealth not an investment.Paper and digital currency are backed by only faith in government and central banks.God bless those that have that kind of faith. Craig

Sounds like Gospel to me, Amen Brother, Amen!

[Four-Sixty]

I think you can wipe that idea off the blackboard, cornhusks, leaves, and junk mail will rule the day.
You keep the toilet paper and I'll keep my Silver.

Maybe after awhile, when people get comfortable with a new norm. I have four daughters and a Wife. I sort of understand women, and I expect there are a lot them - as well as men - who will find it unacceptable to use anything but toilet paper.

[dragon813gt]

Do you believe an EMP attack or a Carrington event fall in the nuclear war category?

I don't know what a Carrington event is. An EMP attack would have to take out everything. An I mean on a world wide scale for it to completely break down society. Humans have been adapting and over coming our entire lives. If the power goes out there will be a lot of people that die. But I don't see society completely breaking down. Food and water will still be available. Nuclear winter caused by a nuclear war, asteroid impact or a super volcano eruption will break down society. And at that point you have to ask yourself if you really want to live in that type of world. I know what my answer is.

You hoard anything and you are a target in all of the SHTF scenarios. Better have some close friends that won't turn on each other. Because you're going to have guard your hoard 24/7 just to maintain. Not a pretty picture at all.

I'm hoping gold drops into the low hundreds. At that point I will invest a certain percentage. I will continue to buy graded coins along w/ other silver collectibles.

[Cord]

J.P. Morgan, undeniably the most influential financier in history told Congress in 1912;
“Money is gold. Everything else is credit.”

Here is the exchange, from December 19, 1912:

Q. "I want to ask you a few questions bearing on the subject that
you have touched upon this morning, as to the control of money.
The control of credit involves a control of money, does it not? "

A. "A control of credit? No."

Q. "But the basis of banking is credit, is it not?"

A. "Not always. That is an evidence of banking, but it is not the money itself.
Money is gold, and nothing else. "

Q. "The basis of banking is credit?"

A. "Yes."

This remark is often misquoted as"Gold is money, and nothing else."
but what you read above is the correct version from the Library of Congress.
.

[sparky45]

Maybe after awhile, when people get comfortable with a new norm. I have four daughters and a Wife. I sort of understand women, and I expect there are a lot them - as well as men - who will find it unacceptable to use anything but toilet paper.

Maybe a improvised Bidet?

[Cord]

Alan Greenspan, former Chairman of the Federal Reserve
Interviewed by Gillian Tett, U.S. Managing Editor, Financial Times
The Council of Foreign Relations, New York, October 29, 2014

TETT:…… "But do you think that gold is currently a good investment
given what you're saying about the potential for turmoil?"

GREENSPAN: "Yes."

(LAUGHTER)

TETT: "Do you put..."

GREENSPAN: "Economists are usually perfect in equivocating.
In this case I didn't equivocate.
Look, remember what we're looking at. Gold is a currency.
It is still by all evidences the premier currency
where no fiat currency, including the dollar, can match it.
And so that the issue is, if you're looking at a question of turmoil,
you will find, as we always have in the past, it moves into the gold price.

But the gold price is actually sort of half a commodity price,
so when the economy is weakening, it goes down like copper.
But it's also got a monetary characteristic which is intrinsic.
It's not inbred into human beings—I cannot conceive—
of any mechanism by which you could say that,
but it behaves as though it is."

You can find video of this exchange on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psjBj0lkueg
.

[MtGun44]

"an EMP attack will wipe out everything".

You have been reading too much science(ish) fiction. EMP is massively overrated by
fiction authors. Almost all cars modern will run fine, some will require powering down and powering
back up (reboot). Many appliances will be damaged if connected to the grid. Large
power transformers will be damaged and will take some significant time to repair. Changes to
sourcing (6 or 7 new US suppliers have started up recently) and standardization on sizing and
application are making replacements much more rapid than predicted a decade ago.

Do some research, there are a number of online LEGITIMATE scientific sources and some
reports of government subcommittees and industry groups working to improve the
rapidity and effectiveness of response to the damage.

Yes it is real, yes there will be damage, but the time to recover and the amount of damage
has been MASSIVELY exaggerated to sell books.

Bill

[MaryB]

One fix the power companies have been fighting is fusing the transformers. Sure that means fuses tripping out at times and power outages but it would protect the major transformers from failure.

[Bad Water Bill]

2 doors down from me the same transformer has hung from the same pole for at least the 43 years I have lived in this home and yes almost every storm trips their ??? and everyone on my side of the street is in the dark AGAIN.

Last year they raised our electric bill by 25% to UPDATE their aging equipment.

At that time they dropped a new pole on a neighbors front lawn.

Now they need another increase in order to plant the pole.

[BrassMagnet]

Gold and silver are held as a store of wealth not an investment.Paper and digital currency are backed by only faith in government and central banks.God bless those that have that kind of faith. Craig

China is dumping dollar denominated assets rapidly. Reportedly about a half trillion in the last five quarters which includes about 224 Billion in the last quarter. China claims to have purchased 600 more tons of gold for their reserves.
No one believes China is telling the truth about the size of the increase in their gold reserves, but JP Morgan reported the half trillion divestment from analyzing their FX reserves.
Source: SHTFplan and Zero Hedge.
A Carrington Event is a shot of energy from the sun which act similar to an EMP, but is naturally occurring.

[mold maker]

I'm not the least upset that the price dropped to $1093. yesterday at one time. It's been there before. It's still over $600. above what I paid. If at the time, I had used the money for anything else it would be long gone. As it stands, I still have over double what I paid.
I can easily, un-noticed carry 20 or so T oz in my pants pocket. All the talk about investing/hoarding lead or ammo is just bluster. Just how much of them can you hide on your person, and move about in a distraught society. Just how long will a pocket full of lead or ammo last.
I've heard of many paper rich folks dying hungry, because their money turned worthless. but have you ever heard of a man starving with gold in his pocket?
There will always be profiteers willing to trade whatever for gold.
When your family get really hungry, can you carry enough lead or bullets to trade for enough food? It maybe miles away, on foot, for all of you, and NO you can't just whip out your gun and take it. I'll have one to. If you co-operate, I might even buy you a biscuit.

[BrassMagnet]

I'm not the least upset that the price dropped to $1093. yesterday at one time. It's been there before. It's still over $600. above what I paid. If at the time, I had used the money for anything else it would be long gone. As it stands, I still have over double what I paid.
I can easily, un-noticed carry 20 or so T oz in my pants pocket. All the talk about investing/hoarding lead or ammo is just bluster. Just how much of them can you hide on your person, and move about in a distraught society. Just how long will a pocket full of lead or ammo last.
I've heard of many paper rich folks dying hungry, because their money turned worthless. but have you ever heard of a man starving with gold in his pocket?
There will always be profiteers willing to trade whatever for gold.
When your family get really hungry, can you carry enough lead or bullets to trade for enough food? It maybe miles away, on foot, for all of you, and NO you can't just whip out your gun and take it. I'll have one to. If you co-operate, I might even buy you a biscuit.

i agree.
i occasionally worked with Ed. Ed was a telco guy. Ed was going to retire in a year as a millionaire. Then MCI Worldcom turned out to be cooking the books and all of Ed's stock became worthless. So did his retirement. 100% of Ed's investments were in MCI. No diversity! Bernie Madoff's clients thought they were diversified, too!
can it really hurt to have a few more options?

[jmort]

"...but have you ever heard of a man starving with gold in his pocket?"

I suppose not, assuming there was food to buy. But what I would suspect if paper dollars were worthless, the man with the gold in his pocket would be a dead man.

[Blacksmith]

"...but have you ever heard of a man starving with gold in his pocket?"

I suppose not, assuming there was food to buy. But what I would suspect if paper dollars were worthless, the man with the gold in his pocket would be a dead man.

There are a lot of refugees that lived because they had some gold to pay for a passage or to bribe a boarder guard to look the other way.

Diversification is the key because you don't know what will happen and what will work. A little gold, a little silver, some booze, and tobacco, food, ammo, tools, etc. But remember the things they can't take away from you are your knowledge and skills, so make sure you have some of each that will be in demand.