Help me make my 35 Rem shoot

[sfauble]

I really appreciate the help from you folks. I am heading to the range shortly today to sight my scope back in after putting a new mount on my 340. I have a few more rounds loaded up for the 35 that I didn't shoot yet. I will load a few more of the one good load just to finish out on a good note.

I have 100 ftx that I got with the rifle. I may shoot them through it just to see if there is an improvement. Didn't want to do that in case I sold the rifle.

[rockrat]

I used AA2520 in my 35 rem. Does sound a bit like a sharp edge strippng the lead, on the transistion to the leade. Maybe a dozen rounds or so of firelapping rounds to maybe smooth it out.

[44man]

I wouldn't think it's too soft. It's the same alloy I use for my .30 calls. Same treatment. Cast, size with gas check, shake and bake pc, bake and drop into ice water from oven. I have run these at 2550 fps from .308 with no issues, just the accuracy has fallen off. I know the bullets are different but I get good accuracy and no leading with this alloy prepped this way from 1200 fps - 2300 fps in both 308 and 30-30.

What temp do you bake at? you could be annealing the boolits.

[Yodogsandman]

Where you're water dropping your boolits, I doubt that they're too soft.

In your photo's, two show a smudge ring on the case neck. This shows the neck fit is tight in the chamber. Have you tried the once-fired Hornady cases, the neck walls could be thinner on commercial cases. The thickness of the brass neck could be swaging down your boolits.

Do you use a 35 Rem shell holder or .308 Win shell holder? There might be a height difference.

If your shoulder is set back too much, the force of the firing pin, when fired, could be pushing the case forward and cookie cutting a ring. It would be more pronounced with a case length that's too long or too thick or not at the length of the crimp groove.

To check, smoke a fired case (fired in your rifle) neck with a candle and run it all the way up in your sizing die. The mid-shoulder or datum should be just barely kissed by the die, visible in the carbon from the smoke.

[sfauble]

I bake 400 for 22 mins. Just what I've always done. When I got the brass I sized 5 cases in a fl die. Compared them to unsized cases. Using a caliper the size was the same. The neck tension was a felt light resistance. I used a lee collect die on all the brass. The tension was more snug. Now I did measure the pulled bullets sized at .358 and they measured correctly at .358 . I have not fl sized any brass since firing. Fired brass is same length as original. I have some neck sized brass I loaded up for the range today to see I'd there is a noticeable difference on the good load. Just an easy thing to do to compare one thing.

Now I have read, but no first hand exp with a lever gun that you can just neck size. Same chamber and the fired brass is easy in and out on my rifle.

Using 308 shell holder. Forgot to put that in here.

[44man]

I neck turn every case for my 30-30 since I found wobbling loads. You could have thick necks.

[GRUMPA]

Before you guys comment on the brass, read this first...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...way&highlight=

[sfauble]

Hey Grumpa. Appreciate you showing up. The brass is really nice work. Looks great. I don't believe I have a brass problem. I believe it's a rifle issue or maybe something I'm doing during loading or both. I did measure the brass and it measured just as factory brass. I had 3 unfired factory loads to compare. Thanks for allowing me to be able to shoot this rifle because of your work.

[GRUMPA]

Well here's my .02 worth. I think it's a sharp edge in the chamber itself. When using cast boolits there's a thing called obturation that takes place as well.

[sfauble]

Since a sharp edge has bee mentioned a few times. Is it possible since I have one load that shoots well that it is not effecting accuracy? Or did I get lucky that the one load is just not effected by the cut bullet because everything else just works with it.

[44man]

Before you guys comment on the brass, read this first...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...way&highlight=

Ok, good job and the reaming is the key. They should be straight. My brass had all kinds of different thicknesses from side to side.
But is 400° enough to harden lead? Or did it stay soft.
Yes, it could be the ball seat is sharp in the rifle. The best thing would be recovered boolits.

[GRUMPA]

I'm the kinda guy that takes chamber casts, I have a lot of tools here and if I were to find a sharp edge I would be introducing it to my lapping stones.

[sfauble]

44man I would think that 400 is enough since its the same pot I made my last 200 308 from and have been shooting them at 2300+. Same alloy and same treatment. 0 leading in barrel. I started waterquenching after I got some leading in my 30-30 before I got the 308. Haven't had an issue since.

I don't have the equipment to work the chamber in any way. I could do a chamber cast or have a Smith look at it. I just am not ready to spend any more money until I feel like it's gonna be a keeper. If I do a chamber cast should I do a pound cast or use the other low temp stuff. Can't remember what it's called. Never done one before.

[GRUMPA]

I think your talking about CerroCast (sp) which is some pretty good stuff. I also use a 2-part rubber epoxy that Dentists use, works rather well and cleans right up. I've done pound casts using pure lead, lotta hassle that way but works when nothing is readily available...

[44man]

I understand spending more money better then most, SS ravages a life style. I did better with paper route money when young then I do now. I bought a .300 Weatherby and more guns you can shake a stick at with almost nothing. i still have the Browning Superposed. I paid $308 for it. I was making $1.75 an hour.

[popper]

Look at the PC round pic. It's cutting the PC and forming the ring. Lead gets blown into the space between the mouth and leade. Last pic of the dummy rnd shows the ring forming.You alloy is not too soft but make sure seating doesn't make the ogive larger - 308 brass has a tough neck - I've had the nose expand if neck tension is too great - on WD allow. They won't chamber in my AR 308, just get to pogo. Try sizing a thou. or 2 smaller. Worked for the RD in 30/30.

[bhn22]

Since a sharp edge has bee mentioned a few times. Is it possible since I have one load that shoots well that it is not effecting accuracy? Or did I get lucky that the one load is just not effected by the cut bullet because everything else just works with it.

It could be because of a slightly different bullet profile.

[MBTcustom]

400 degrees is acceptable temperature, but I like to go 450. Your bullets are hard enough.
You got your brass from Grumpa, so it's not the brass (I made the die for that BTW).
You're using two of the best bullet designs for aplication, so you're good there. (the RCBS is shooting better because it was blessed by Boolette herself and just tends to work in anything.)

I would not be surprised if your throat (or lack thereof) is to blame. Your bullet is passing over a sharp edge and thats all there is to it. The lead and PC that is scraped off is piling up in the only place they can: between the case mouth and where all the scraping is happening.

You need to do a pound cast, or take it to a smith who has a borescope and knows how to use it. I am just such a smith, and I wish you were close enough for me to help you, but please read my Sticky on how to do a pound cast (read the whole thing and see the second method I mention later in the thread.)
Also read my Sticky titled "just a few tips for new rifle casters" as that might give you some clues as well.

Something I want to ask you (and pardon me if it's redundant) but are you sizing your bullets after PC? You absolutely must be less than .360 for this not to happen, and .359 would probably be better.

Also, have you pulled some loaded bullets to see if they are still the right size, and if the PC was damaged? Buddy of mine came over a couple nights ago and asked me to pull down a handfull of his PC 45-70 loads, and I found that half of them had the PC damaged.

[sfauble]

Went to the range this afternoon. Took the 35 and the 30-30. Kill two birds with one stone. Get some shooting in and sight in the Scope on the 30-30. Gives me time to let each gun cool down. I took 35 rounds of 35 rem 5 loads each of LVR .5 gr steps from 39-41 with the RD bullet. The only load I know the velocity was 39.0 which is right at 2150fps I did on the first range trip. After that I was after accuracy after I had a base idea for loading.


From left to right: 39.0 at 2.1", 39.5 at 5.0", 40.0 at 3.95"



Left to right: 41.0 at 2.35", 40.5 at 3.61" and the last one is what I was having luck with. 39.0 Gr LVR 220 gr RCBS bullet but this one sized to .360 and set a little deeper. This is the worst for this load so far at 3.9". I have to pull 2 of them because they would not chamber.

Below is typical of what I have been getting. The load below is 39.0 LVR 220 RCBS sized .358. This is a 6 shot group at 1.82"

Thought I would post actual targets and show what some of the groups actually looks like. All targets were shot round robin today. Except the bottom one which was shot yesterday consecutive.

Finally got one to eject with the lead on it.

Maybe I'm just too picky or not used to how a lever gun shoots. The top left and bottom left target pics I can live with. The rest just seem off from what should be.

[sfauble]

Goodsteel I do size after coating. So the loads are sized and checked and then coated and cooked. Then sized again. I do not have a .359 sizer. I opened up my .356 to .360. Should probably have held up before doing that. .360 is probably to large for this gun.

All 15 I pulled on the first trip were sized at .358 and when pulled all looked good with no scraping and measured at .358. They are not getting swaged.
Popper made mention of the Ogive maybe getting larger on seating. I have not checked that yet.