Have you tried a PC that doesn't work?

[MBTcustom]

I'm wondering if anybody has found a powder coat color or brand (Premium. From Smoke or PBTP etc. other than HF) that can conclusively be said not to work?
Now please understand what I mean when I say "does not work". I don't care whether it smiles at the camera. I don't care if it gives an even coat. I don't care if survives a hammer test.
All I care about is blatant lack of accuracy and/or propensity to allow leading in the barrel.

So far, all the colors I have tried have all done well as long as I don't hot rod them and pay attention to getting an even coat.

We have a thread on "what works and what doesn't", but
A. looks like everything works
B. seems like the thrust of the thread was more about looks than performance. (no offence.)

I guess what I'm saying is, given the stated criteria, do you find any powders that are not as good as others? I think that list would be much shorter.
I ask this, knowing that it should be taken with a grain of salt, but also wondering if there's any you have found that seemed to cause accuracy issues or leading.

I think at this point it's safe to say that most of them "work" more or less.
Which ones don't?
Thanks!

[bangerjim]

Matte colors do not coat using BBDT. The matting agent kills the teeny little static in the bowl, just like graphite and moly.

Some have had problems with colos not giving a even coat, mainly light colors. And metallics seem to have some problems all their own.

Other than that, I have not heard about a powder that will not work with BBDT. Some to a bettter degree as per the thread.

bangerjim

[Beagle333]

I have not had any colors that cause or allow leading. I haven't notice any that give better or less accuracy, but I do 95% cowboy shooting and it probably wouldn't show up anyway. Most of my rifle shooting is with the 1894C and my Handi 30-30 and both of those just have to be minute-of-critter (I don't shoot paper with those), but neither has leaded with any color that I have used.

[popper]

I've pushed the HF red to 2780 and near MOA @ 100 so I can't say it's a 'bad' powder. Smoke's black to ~1800 on a plain base (300BO), coating some for the 308W but they need some aging before results. I am not satisfied with BBDT for rifle. I have noticed that recooking with Smoke's black boolit diameter shrinks. Boolits were coated, cooked (10 min), sized, then recooked (one hr) for H.T. & W.D. I think it is the coating shrinking - like heat shrink tubing. Not a problem, just beware. HF red doesn't shrink.

[MBTcustom]

I've pushed the HF red to 2780 and near MOA @ 100 so I can't say it's a 'bad' powder. Smoke's black to ~1800 on a plain base (300BO), coating some for the 308W but they need some aging before results. I am not satisfied with BBDT for rifle. I have noticed that recooking with Smoke's black boolit diameter shrinks. Boolits were coated, cooked (10 min), sized, then recooked (one hr) for H.T. & W.D. I think it is the coating shrinking - like heat shrink tubing. Not a problem, just beware. HF red doesn't shrink.

Its probably the the pigment in the black. So what negative effect did you observe on target from these undersized double cooked black bullets? Leading? Accuracy issues?

Just to reiterate, I think the PCs that do not work as advertised are going to be a short list. More bullets have been coated with HF red than any other single color. We know it works darn well, and as such is not something you want to discuss in a thread about what doesn't work.

All I want to know about is which PCs the members here should avoid buying because they produce substandard results, or take more fiddling/two coats/double baking/holding you mouth right/ etc etc etc.

[popper]

So what negative effect did you observe on target from these undersized double cooked black bullets? Didn't shoot them, too small. Recycled. To answer you question directly, there aren't any 'bad' powders from the major suppliers. There are problems with the application and use of the powders. I did fine 40SW samples from blue bullets leaded in my 40. Have no idea what coating they use.

[MBTcustom]

To answer you question directly, there aren't any 'bad' powders from the major suppliers. There are problems with the application and use of the powders.

Thats pretty much what I'm seeing but I have not tried them all, and the other thread was devoted to what powders "work" so if some didn't, I wouldn't expect them to be posted.

So, from your post, I take it some powders are not as easy to apply as others? Otherwise, if one knows how to apply PC and finds that a certain PC causes problems with application, then that powder may be one to be aware of that a new guy might want to save for later?
Or are you saying that problems with application would be there no matter what powder he used? IE: new guy with a learning curve?

[45r]

Pbtp emerald green has given very good accuracy for me in my 300Blk.
Noe 150 and 198 grain bullets shoot many sub moa groups using aa1680,imr 4227, and re-7.
A few have gone less than half inch at 85 yards.
I got this powder first since it was said to work well by Dolomite on the 300Blk forum.
I think he has been using PC for a long time.
I've used it DT and ES harbor freight gun.
Going to try HF red next in ES.

[MBTcustom]

Are there any that should be avoided in your opinion?

[popper]

There has been experimentation with VHT and other 'paint' type stuff, I think it's pretty much gone now.
new guy with a learning curve Yup, most of the coating threads are application problems. Guns with sharp ridge that scrape, alloy, shake & bake (not if you want good fps & accuracy,IMHO) & the matte black problem. I think we are using industrial grade powder, not architectural or auto body finish powder, so basically all is 'good'. IMHO, HF is at the low end but still works great. I ran some jacketed through the BO for breakin but haven't shot any other jacketed for a couple years, all cast is coated. I loaded some plated 40 just because I have them.

[MBTcustom]

Cool, good to know.

i loaded some plated 40 just because I have them

Watch it now. You got aweful close to admitting to shooting jacketed there popper. LOL!

[Handloader109]

I don't see any leading with the three colors I have used. But I will say that even with my marginal shooting skills, I can see a difference between plated and my tumble coated. Always have a few fliers with the pc, never with the plated. No data to back up, but I would expect a spray would eliminate almost all of these fliers. I have more issues with insuring they all will go into battery due to the added the thickness. New NOE bullet can't be tumble coated and loaded. Spray is thin enough to barely work

[Smoke4320]

Are there any that should be avoided in your opinion?

Metallics ( you have no control as to the metal used for the "metallic additive)

[MBTcustom]

Metallics ( you have no control as to the metal used for the "metallic additive)

Interesting. You mean like the copper and silver colors? or maybe all those colors that look like anodized aluminum?

[popper]

I have a pound of CFE pistol to try.

[Smoke4320]

I was referring to the metal flake colors ..
most of the std colors do not have a metal additive
that's one of the reasons its difficult to get a copper color or they are so finely ground then suspended in the plastic they cause no harm

[MBTcustom]

I have a pound of CFE pistol to try.

It's not advisable to PC with actual reloading powder. I don't know what the flash point of Hodgdon CFE is, nor how well it will stick to the bullets, but it just shouldn't be attempted. Keep the reloading powders behind the bullet.
This thread is about PC powders that DO NOT PRODUCE FAVORABLE RESULTS.

Smoke4320, can you expound a little more on why you don't recommend the metallic PC?
True, you don't know what's in it, but considering that military bullets have been successfully made with STEEL JACKETS, its hard to see how a PC could hold a candle to that. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to try them based solely on that.

I'm actually glad that I'm not getting many reply's to this thread. I have lots of people asking me at the range if any color or brand will do, and I told them I believe so, but that I would ask those who have tried a lot more colors than I have. I want to tell them "if you can get a good even coat, then shoot em." but I was hesitant to do that, because sure as shootin somebody would go get some sort of Aphrodite fuchsia color or something that turns out to be an epic fail, and then I would owe them a barrel scrubbing. LOL!

[MBTcustom]

I was referring to the metal flake colors ..
most of the std colors do not have a metal additive
that's one of the reasons its difficult to get a copper color or they are so finely ground then suspended in the plastic they cause no harm

Aha, Got it. I was posting at the same time. Thanks for the clarification!
So any solid color is pretty much going to work, and there is no discernible difference in performance between colors in the same firearm?

[Smoke4320]

Tim
My worry on the metal flake is the large flake itself coming off and building up in the bore not the wear issue ..my thinking is the flake will be softer than the steel barrel and possibly adhere.. This is a personal thought no scientific proof of this I did test some metal flake powder did see some material left .. I stopped at that point ..Probably should have tested further but did not

If you are spraying most of the industrial RAL colors will work for our application..
There are formulations that will NOT dry tumble IE the flat black .. I also ran into a copper color that would not dry tumble ..So far I have stuck with 2 manufacturers powders and plan on testing some other "wilder" colors from others this fall (when its cooler)

I have tested probably 30 colors and I really can't see any difference in performance accuracy wise .. if its coated/cured and sized properly it just works

[MBTcustom]

Tim
My worry on the metal flake is the large flake itself coming off and building up in the bore not the wear issue ..my thinking is the flake will be softer than the steel barrel and possibly adhere.. This is a personal thought no scientific proof of this I did test some metal flake powder did see some material left .. I stopped at that point ..Probably should have tested further but did not

If you are spraying most of the industrial RAL colors will work for our application..
There are formulations that will NOT dry tumble IE the flat black .. I also ran into a copper color that would not dry tumble ..So far I have stuck with 2 manufacturers powders and plan on testing some other "wilder" colors from others this fall (when its cooler)

I have tested probably 30 colors and I really can't see any difference in performance accuracy wise .. if its coated/cured and sized properly it just works

Well I'd say that's as close to "straight from the horses mouth" as it gets.
Good to know about the flat black not doing well with dry tumble (although I've read this several times in other threads) duly noted.

I was wondering because
A. I think it's a question that was never answered directly,
B. I was personally curious about the clear coat, and the really metallic colors. Those ones that look like the old anodized drinking glasses? and pretty much any of the non-opaque, translucent styles. and
C. I wondered if there were any that just don't work and I may have missed it in my reading. I see a thread dedicated to "what works" but no example of what doesn't.

It seems that powder coat is powder coat of any color, and it really is "all that and a bag of chips". I'm still hoping to find a way to print small groups at 2700+ FPS, but just because PC doesn't fit into my pursuit of the warp speed cast bullet (yet), I'm willing to recognize it as a fantastic option at normal cast bullet speeds.

Thanks for all the input gents!